NYT article on PETA undercover in Asmussen's barn

[Acertainsmile]

[QUOTE=skydy;7494856]
That is really funny. :lol:

Zayat does remind me of a rat deserting a sinking ship. For someone who seemed heartbroken (in the press) at Nehro’s death, he sure didn’t know much about him. Isn’t he a horseplayer? Don’t betting men make it their business to know these things?

This whole matter is unpleasant. I hope TB racing will try to do a little better, for the horses’ sake though ,when people are involved, nothing is perfect. There will always be bad actors.[/QUOTE]

As far as Zayet, it is very common for a trainer to withhold information from an owner. I’ve seen it done time and time again over the years. From a trainer that galloped a horse with full blown bucked shins and a blister (just put on some polos and they will never know). Owner wanted to see the horse gallop (and was a lifelong horsewoman). The horse had been handwalking for 4 weeks at the time. So unless they come to the barn and really put their hands on legs, pick up feet they don’t ever have to know. Is it right? Of course not, but it does happen more often than you all think.

He had some honest racing managers that weren’t told either. I tend to believe them based on reputation vs. Asmussans reputation. Don’t forget how much money was devoted to Paynter to get him healthy.

[Laurierace]

Mushrooms

[sjdressage]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;7495016]
As far as Zayet, it is very common for a trainer to withhold information from an owner. I’ve seen it done time and time again over the years. From a trainer that galloped a horse with full blown bucked shins and a blister (just put on some polos and they will never know). Owner wanted to see the horse gallop (and was a lifelong horsewoman). The horse had been handwalking for 4 weeks at the time. So unless they come to the barn and really put their hands on legs, pick up feet they don’t ever have to know. Is it right? Of course not, but it does happen more often than you all think.

He had some honest racing managers that weren’t told either. I tend to believe them based on reputation vs. Asmussans reputation. Don’t forget how much money was devoted to Paynter to get him healthy.[/QUOTE]

But do you really believe they had no idea the horse had bad feet? I mean you can see the patching from far away:

http://kentuckyconfidential.com/2011/04/28/profile-nehro/

I’m sure the feet were bad but it also sounds like a farrier working on a horses feet after a different farrier got done with him. They always tell you how screwed up they are and make you feel you are lucky they are there to fix them.

I have an inkling that some of these bad feet are directly correlated with substances trainers use. I mean some trainers have tons of glue ons when you go down the shed row and they’re expensive.

[spotted_draft_x_fill]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;7495016]
As far as Zayet, it is very common for a trainer to withhold information from an owner. I’ve seen it done time and time again over the years. From a trainer that galloped a horse with full blown bucked shins and a blister (just put on some polos and they will never know). Owner wanted to see the horse gallop (and was a lifelong horsewoman). The horse had been handwalking for 4 weeks at the time. So unless they come to the barn and really put their hands on legs, pick up feet they don’t ever have to know. Is it right? Of course not, but it does happen more often than you all think.

He had some honest racing managers that weren’t told either. I tend to believe them based on reputation vs. Asmussans reputation. Don’t forget how much money was devoted to Paynter to get him healthy.[/QUOTE]

Yep. There has been many times I have seen trainers/managers lie to clients about their horses. They lie about how they are doing, services provided, and there has been times where we have been told to lie to the clients if they were to ask us any specific questions.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=sjdressage;7495035]
But do you really believe they had no idea the horse had bad feet? I mean you can see the patching from far away:

http://kentuckyconfidential.com/2011/04/28/profile-nehro/

I’m sure the feet were bad but it also sounds like a farrier working on a horses feet after a different farrier got done with him. They always tell you how screwed up they are and make you feel you are lucky they are there to fix them.

I have an inkling that some of these bad feet are directly correlated with substances trainers use. I mean some trainers have tons of glue ons when you go down the shed row and they’re expensive.[/QUOTE]

For the record, I’d probably have glue ons on every horse if I could afford it. If they are bad to rip shoes off, they don’t take out their hoof wall when they pull them off. I totally agree on the farrier analysis, even the best of them pretty much say the same thing, “the last guy was awful and you are so lucky to have me.” I don’t mind that if they are a good farrier.

If that really was Nerho in the video, he could have just returned to the track after time off at the farm or being at another track under a different foreman. I see horses coming back to me after “time off” that while they needed the time off, would have been better off kept in training. Time off is useless when you take poor care of them. At least in training I keep them fed and cared for (brushed, feet picked, dewormed).

[Acertainsmile]

Many horses have quarter cracks and are patched. That’s not exactly a huge red flag…The fact that there was nothing underneath would be.

[caffeinated]

[QUOTE=luvmytbs;7494549]
Zayat said he knew that Nehro had to be stopped on twice due to ankle problems but was never made aware that the horse had problems with his feet. In the video, one of Nehro’s feet is described by an unnamed farrier as “a little bitty nub.”

“News to me, never heard it before, very disturbing,” Zayat said. “Therefore, I was lied to, and if I was lied to, I can’t continue to keep my horses in an environment where I can’t trust the care that’s given.”[/QUOTE]

I’m sort of surprised by this, because I swear that the fact he had bad feet was a “known” thing when the horse was racing. Unless I’m confusing him with another horse, I swear it was something mentioned in various racing articles, so it seems surprising the owner didn’t know about it.

[Acertainsmile]

Angelico, are you still defending Asmussan? Blacksmiths are not magicians, not saying they are all created equal but jeez…

[spotted_draft_x_fill]

[QUOTE=caffeinated;7495101]
I’m sort of surprised by this, because I swear that the fact he had bad feet was a “known” thing when the horse was racing. Unless I’m confusing him with another horse, I swear it was something mentioned in various racing articles, so it seems surprising the owner didn’t know about it.[/QUOTE]

But did the public know that all that was left was little nubs? There’s tons of reasons for patches, glue ons, and special shoes. Thin soles, thin walls, brittle walls that won’t hold nails, etc… So maybe he did know to some extent that his feet were not that great, but maybe didn’t know they were that bad.

[CVPeg]

Agree about some information being withheld at times. But I’ve been a syndicate member, standing next to idiots who haven’t a clue about any part of a horse, with only a few hundred invested, who constantly critique every move a trainer makes. And then there are the times they don’t want to know, or they won’t listen - because they don’t want to pay for upkeep, and would rather keep racing 'em to grab a small chunk of the purse, despite the trainer’s wishes.

I would think the knowledge disseminated often depends on the relationship - one being of mutual respect.

[jennywho]

I had a trainer tell me that he entered my horse and the race didn’t go three times and it turns out the horse wasn’t in the barn, wasn’t tattooed, wasn’t gate okay end and had never worked. He kept telling me they must have missed his work. I ended up getting the stewards involved. Turns out I wasn’t the first owner he had done this to.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;7495103]
Angelico, are you still defending Asmussan? Blacksmiths are not magicians, not saying they are all created equal but jeez…[/QUOTE]

Where did you pull that from? I never said they were. I never suggested that one could have fixed the horse’s issues.

Not that I know anything, I’m just the sole person here that has any experience in the A barn. Clearly you have to be an arm chair quarterback that couldn’t make it in the business to mean anything to you.

[sjdressage]

[QUOTE=jennywho;7495191]
I had a trainer tell me that he entered my horse and the race didn’t go three times and it turns out the horse wasn’t in the barn, wasn’t tattooed, wasn’t gate okay end and had never worked. He kept telling me they must have missed his work. I ended up getting the stewards involved. Turns out I wasn’t the first owner he had done this to.[/QUOTE]

Wow, that’s pretty bad. Sounds like a real winner. Most trainers want to show progress.

[spotted_draft_x_fill]

There are people out there that come off as pretty good people. They take care of the horses. Make sure they have the best feed, quality hay, great bedding, good timely farrier/vet care, made sure they’re well looked after and can still do unimaginable illegal practices. It’s the trainer’s job to know the rules and regulations regarding medications. The vets should know the rules too. If the trainer is pushing, the vet should by right refuse. If the vet is pushing, the trainer should refuse. If an owner is saying do whatever it takes even if that means breaking the rules, the trainer should refuse to do business with them. There are plenty of other owners with horses out there.

The whole industry needs a major overhauling and not just what happens on the track. We do need a US Commision instead of every state with their own set of rules. We need to get rid of the politics. We need to get back into breeding for racing instead of sales. We need to get back to breeding for soundness and longevity. There’s just so much that has gone wrong, who knows if we will ever be able to fix it.

[Laurierace]

I know one trainer who would inject the horse them self when the vet refused. Now that they have threshold levels for corticosteroids I hope he can’t do that anymore. If so, that is just one of the many advances they have made for the horses that isn’t being acknowledged.

[Angelico]

@spotted draft x filly;7495256

There are plenty of other owners with horses out there.

No, there aren’t.

[spotted_draft_x_fill]

Sure there are. People switch barns. People get turned away because there’s no more room. There’s programs out there to get new people into TB ownership and no I’m not talking about syndicates. They may not be able to afford the high end trainers butthey’re happy with having a horse run even in say a $10000 race and even more excited if it wins. Plus they’re having fun while doing it. If there wasn’t anymore owners available, the industry would be in worse shape then what it is in now.

[Acertainsmile]

[QUOTE=Angelico;7495211]
Where did you pull that from? I never said they were. I never suggested that one could have fixed the horse’s issues.

Not that I know anything, I’m just the sole person here that has any experience in the A barn. Clearly you have to be an arm chair quarterback that couldn’t make it in the business to mean anything to you.[/QUOTE]

Good one, but I’ve been in the business probably longer than you’ve been alive…what were you a hotwalker in the barn? You mentioned your fiancé was an excersise rider. Whoopy.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=spotted draft x filly;7495360]
Sure there are. People switch barns. People get turned away because there’s no more room. There’s programs out there to get new people into TB ownership and no I’m not talking about syndicates. They may not be able to afford the high end trainers butthey’re happy with having a horse run even in say a $10000 race and even more excited if it wins. Plus they’re having fun while doing it. If there wasn’t anymore owners available, the industry would be in worse shape then what it is in now.[/QUOTE]

There is a shortage of owners that are willing to wait through all the steps it takes to get a horse fit, approved, and ready, and do it well. If it is any good that is, if it isn’t, good luck convincing them. It isn’t cheap to have a racehorse in training with a decent barn. $55.00 a day is the average. Anyone who says there isn’t a shortage of owners needs to go out there and try to make a living training.

Owners get discouraged easily. It’s hard on them to spend thousands a month for a few months only to find out their beloved horse doesn’t have what it takes, or has no chance of holding up. I’m very lucky to have great owners, but there are far better horsemen than me out there that can’t compete because they don’t have the support.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;7495391]
Good one, but I’ve been in the business probably longer than you’ve been alive…what were you a hotwalker in the barn? You mentioned your fiancé was an excersise rider. Whoopy.[/QUOTE]

I’m an assistant, I gallop, and I pony, and I run a few of our own on the side. I thought you said a few pages back you got out? You were too high and mighty for us? Now you are back in the industry? Make up your mind.