[QUOTE=SportArab;7500446]
Well, are any of you folks who are answering this giving your horses pharmaceuticals for no other reason than with the wish to improve performance?[/QUOTE]
We give them things to improve their overall health, like omeprazole, sulfadiazine for some, etc. I also feed them well and vaccinate. All of those things could potentially make them perform better in the afternoon. If my horses are healthier than someone else’s, am I a cheater?
I would hazard a guess that the stresses on your 26-year-old’s legs and feet are nothing like those experienced by a horse in a race.
And that is where the problem lies.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7500463]
Absolutely. My 26 year old gets a shot of Pentosan every Wednesday. He gets a previcox pill after a jumping lesson. He gets his feet packed with magic cushion after every ride too but that isn’t really a pharmaceutical. It is all performance enhancing though and he looks and feels like a ten year old.
There is nothing wrong with taking care of an animal so they look and perform their best. Some of that entails medications.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SportArab;7500462]
No, I didn’t say it happens every day in the show world. But I’ve heard of it happening at national level shows.
Regardless of whether the owners are demanding it, there’s still the problem of pharmaceuticals being over used in race horses - as you say, “to get an edge.”
Without rules outlawing this racing will continue to have a tarnished image in the public eye. And it will be vulnerable to exactly the kind of report PETA got the Times to publicize.[/QUOTE]
The public and the Times can go to hell if taking care of my horses is a bad thing. The second a racehorse receives a shot, no matter what it is, it doesn’t matter if the horse is dying of colic, the trainer is automatically a “cheater”. I’m tired of the efforts to save face for the “public”. If the public is really this ignorant, then let them hate us.
[QUOTE=SportArab;7500477]
I would hazard a guess that the stresses on your 26-year-old’s legs and feet are nothing like those experienced by a horse in a race.
And that is where the problem lies.[/QUOTE]
Where is where the problem lies? I really have no problem having a discussion but only if you drop your preconceived notions and actually listen to my answers. Otherwise it wastes both of our time.
The issue for many is the number of breakdowns we see on the track.
It has contributed to the decline of the sport.
Sounds like you don’t think there’s anything wrong.
What contributes to breakdowns? What contributed to the decline of the sport? For the record in 20 plus years of training I had one breakdown. That is one too many of course but obviously I wasn’t contributing to anything.
yep agreed. I signed as well.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7500463]
Absolutely. My 26 year old gets a shot of Pentosan every Wednesday. He gets a previcox pill after a jumping lesson. He gets his feet packed with magic cushion after every ride too but that isn’t really a pharmaceutical. It is all performance enhancing though and he looks and feels like a ten year old.
There is nothing wrong with taking care of an animal so they look and perform their best. Some of that entails medications.[/QUOTE]
I don’t agree with medicating at all. Not to say that I wouldn’t give pain meds or a therapeutic med to an aged or ailing animal to make them as comfortable as possible but for an athletic horse, no, I would not. One sport I do is endurance (50 to 100 miles in one day) and there are NO drugs allowed in that. I also do lower level jumping, dressage and eventing. If my horse is lame or sore, I don’t ride. After strenuous workouts and competitions, I turn my horses out and monitor for soreness or stiffness. I would not give meds unless they had a major problem and that would accompany a layoff…if its just a bit of soreness of overexertion, I want to be able to monitor and analyze it and again, I wouldn’t ride until the problem resolves. You can make a case for saying its nicer for the horse to not feel any of the pain, but its really not because they are more likely to go slower/protect themselves/not overexert if they do feel limitations. That is in their best interest.
I agree. I had one bottle of bute that I had to throw out because it was expired by two years and hadn’t been opened yet. I don’t know what you are talking about but that certainly isn’t what I am talking about.
Laurie you basically admitted to doing pretty much the same thing as some of the trainers in question. It’s one thing to offer all those injections, pills, and pain relief if he was out of work, but you’re doing it so you can continue jumping him.
Bullshit. He has no pain whatsoever and I plan to keep it that way as long as possible. Do you even know what Pentosan is?
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7501251]
Bullshit. He has no pain whatsoever and I plan to keep it that way as long as possible. Do you even know what Pentosan is?[/QUOTE]
Only when they are reccomending it for their show horses.
Laurie that stuff is to treat arthritis and last time I ckecked arthritis is painful. The injection is an anti imflammatory lubricant to help alleviate the pain from the descruction of the joint as well as protect it and cushion it. The pill is another anti imflammatory/pain relief med. Magic Cushion is used to help alleviate sore feet. So if he’s that bad I can understand making him comfortable but not jumping him.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7500148]
I think you are either being misinformed or talked to one person and assume it is like that for the whole industry. Either way, I disagree. There are no vets that are calling owners on the phone and telling them to do this or that to the horse without the trainer’s consent. Not one.[/QUOTE]
Except Micheal Gill…
The problem isn’t the owners talking to the vets, or ordering procedures, that is almost always orchestrated by the trainers.
The problem is the vets doing whatever the trainers want, without the welfare of the horse coming first. This is one of the important points that needs to be addressed if there is going to be change in the industry.
As far as the past vs the present, I agree that some things have improved, when I rode (mid 80’s) there were tracks that basically had no limit to the Bute you could give. That was a scary thing for both horses and riders. There were some nasty treatments like pin firing, excessive blistering, smoking a horses head with Asmador before they ran, internal blistering (stifles, backs) freezing feet with white gas, etc., these things are still done today but a lot less frequently.
What’s replaced this is multiple joint infections, knees, ankles, hocks, coffin bones, stifles, SWT, and a brand new list of medications. All of these are much more humane for the horse, as long as they’re used as needed and not overused to the point of keeping a very sore horse running that shouldn’t be.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7501155]
I agree. I had one bottle of bute that I had to throw out because it was expired by two years and hadn’t been opened yet. I don’t know what you are talking about but that certainly isn’t what I am talking about.[/QUOTE]
Laurie, I too have had a bottle of bute expire. There is a lot these people don’t understand. We are allowed 24 therapeutic medication. With the exception of LASIX their allowable threshold makes them ineffective on race day. Also, joint injections can benefit horses for months. But the bute, ban amine etc. is only on the list for use during training.
A few years ago, this wasn’t the case. You were allowed 5mcg of bute. Your horses legs would be pretty tight the morning of the race, but not so much at race time. A little while back the vets who did the pre race exams in the morning thought reducing the bute threshold would allow them to do an accurate pre race exam. The level was more than cut in half to 2mcg. You won’t see a change in your horse even 12 hours before the race.
I can go on and on but things are very strict.
sjdressage, I think you might want to add that your bottle of bute was at the farm…
You are allowed to have bute at the track.
There is a line between keeping a competition horse comfortable and attempting to mask unsoundness. People who do not understand that do not belong around horses, but weeding those people out is the problem. I have been in it from every angle, from race track exercise rider to show ring competitor to race horse owner and I am married to a race track vet. Kudos to the Mid Atlantic states for implementing the recent medication rule changes.
The buck stops with the owners and the vets. The owners need to question the necessity and efficacy of the medications and treatments they are paying for. The vets need to rein in the trainers who run with every little rumor of a performance enhancing treatment or supplement or medication that has no sound scientific basis. The owners and the vets are best educated and suited to manage the health and welfare of the horses. Unfortunately, that job is going to be given to the legislatures and racing commissioners because no one wants to own it.
I agree completely Flash!
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