Ok I know many of you are going to lose your minds over this question but take the social security numbers out as that is definitely a crime and take the machine part out as that is a crime but we have no idea when that crime took place. What exactly surprised/bothered you about that video?
Laurierace, what bothered me were things common in the industry: blanket use of medications with no evidence the horse “needs” it medically, and running sore horses. Those practices show a disregard for the welfare of the animal, the safety of the jocks, and the integrity of what used to be a sport but is now called a “game”.
That was sort of my point Lamb Chop. All that is common. And legal. When I first started out every horse got bute, banamine and dex 24 hours out. There isn’t anywhere in the US that you can do that now which is a good thing.
How many of you have read the complaints linked at the bottom of this? http://www.drf.com/news/peta-accuses-asmussen-stable-mistreating-its-horses
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7491334]
Ok I know many of you are going to lose your minds over this question but take the social security numbers out as that is definitely a crime and take the machine part out as that is a crime but we have no idea when that crime took place. What exactly surprised/bothered you about that video?[/QUOTE]
One of the problems (and is going to be a big problem for him) is that the vet admits that he is giving Lasix to horses that don’t need it. Although it’s done everyday, there still needs to be a bleeder slip turned in and signed by the vet. So he basically he’s admitted to falsifying those.
Blasi caught on tape saying that he will put one over on the stewards, another big problem, illegal if caught, but in this case not illegal because it hadn’t happened yet. (Or at least they can’t prove it).
What bothered me is multifaceted, but the only thing that surpised me was that Blasi is such an idiot, along with the vet, Stevens and Lukas to run their mouths like they did.
Define needing lasix. I think every horse needs lasix because every horse will bleed sooner or later. I don’t think it is possible to predict when that will happen and only use lasix then.
Blasi said he would fool the stewards by putting a gel cast on the horse. I am 100% against running sore horses and managed to get by for over twenty years without doing that but I don’t want to see gel casts banned.
Have any of you actually been inside and been a part of the Asmussen barn? Then how on earth can you assume he is a “bad guy” and treats his horses poorly? I HAVE been there and the world would be a better place for horses if more people operated the way he does. I can’t speak for his rulings and violations, but I do know that the majority of them if not all were accidental overages of meds given by the vet.
Acertainsmile, you saw one of his horses pull up funny after the wire? I guess you are perfect, because I’ve had horses pull up lame after races and works. Horses that were 100% going in. It doesn’t happen often, but I don’t have the numbers that Steve does either. Racing is hard on them, if they are going to get injured it will likely be in a race, the hardest thing they do, rather than a stall or walking.
I’ve also had horses that were totally sound, but moved like goats. Choppy, short strided creatures that were never off a day in their lives, clean legs, good feet, but crappy movers. Unless you saw them every day, you might think they were sore if you glanced at them. Not that someone that doesn’t know each particular horse could truly tell much as a horse was pulling up from a race anyway.
It is ridiculous that people are throwing Asmussen and Blasi under the bus, especially one that PETA is driving. Blasi is a racetracker. Born on the track and raised by a trainer. Yes, he does curse like a sailor, no surprise. What he was saying was true, they will break your heart. Every time. That is what racehorses do.
The real track folk stick with it, no matter how many times their heart is broken and no matter what the rest of the industry is doing. The real guys will live and die in this sport. That is why we are crabby, and pessimistic and why so many curse like Blasi. You think this is hard on the horses? They only run a few races for a short part of their life.
They could have went after the guys that bring in the wormy, scraggly horses. They could have gone after a certain trainer who is at Fair Grounds right now that is currently ranked #14, who was ranked 2nd by wins in 2013, who instructs his grooms to go through every morning and give every horse a syringe full of clenbuterol, who has had multiple exercise riders badly injured or killed riding his lab rats. Instead, they went after the guy with the healthy horses, with the well paid employees that are taken care of.
Yes - Ms Overcash needs to get out the posses and go after everyone who uses lasix when it’s not needed. She’ll need lots and lots of investigators.
Not sure I agree, or know enough to believe that all should use Lasix, but that’s just what I’m talking about with old school trainers who are at a clear disadvantage when they aren’t using it, and have no option except to lose.
And, golly - if all these infractions occurred last May and July, why wait until now to contact the various officials? Hmmmmm? 6 weeks away from the Derby…
PETA wants Thoroughbred racing wiped off the face of the earth. Period.
I hope they have stalls and funds to maintain all they wish to retire.
When I first heard about the video, I immediately looked at it. I was a bit surprised that it was not worse–for something edited down from 7 hours to 9 minutes (or 9 hours to 7 minutes, whatever,) I thought there would be a lot more “bad stuff.”
There is bad language, yes–racetrackers talk dirty.
There is the issue of the “no pulse”–seems to be confusion on that, whether it is good or bad.
The “machine” comments by GS and company could very well be reminiscing about the bad old days.
I wonder about the editing–I am thinking about our big spring vet visit, when our wonderful vet goes down the aisle, pulling Coggins’, doing vaccinations. One mare resents the shots, tries to kick him into next week, and he sometimes calls her names–does not hurt her, but calls her bad names.
Sometimes he injects a hock if he has time, or scopes a horse–tranqs horse, uses twitch. (Non-horse people are freaked out by twitches.) One could tape the visit and edit it to make it seem like a horror show.
This is not to say that bad things do not go on in racing, and possibly in this barn, but does the tape “prove” it?
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7491502]
Define needing lasix. I think every horse needs lasix because every horse will bleed sooner or later. I don’t think it is possible to predict when that will happen and only use lasix then.
.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. If they do bleed badly, chances are we won’t know until we race them. If they are a bad bleeder, Lasix won’t stop it but it sure will help. I won’t run anything that bleeds through Lasix, but I have no way of knowing if they bleed or not until they race. There is nothing complex about it, it helps open up their airways and prevents bleeding to a certain extent, and it makes them pee. Not a complex thing, not a steroid, not a hop. A preventive measure.
No offense here, but we are the only country using Lasix, so obviously horses can run very well without it.
[QUOTE=Angelico;7491508]
It is ridiculous that people are throwing Asmussen and Blasi under the bus, especially one that PETA is driving.
They could have went after the guys that bring in the wormy, scraggly horses. [/QUOTE]
That was the point - no-one would pay attention if you go after the little guys.
[QUOTE=luvmytbs;7491537]
No offense here, but we are the only country using Lasix, so obviously horses can run very well without it.[/QUOTE]
Go to a Euro track in the summertime, then come down here to Texas or Louisiana in the summer time. Then tell me that.
[QUOTE=luvmytbs;7491544]
That was the point - no-one would pay attention if you go after the little guys.[/QUOTE]
So we penalize the guys that are taking care of their horses because of the size of their operation?
[QUOTE=Angelico;7491545]
Go to a Euro track in the summertime, then come down here to Texas or Louisiana in the summer time. Then tell me that.[/QUOTE]
Go to Dubai and then tell me it can’t be done.
An P.S. how did they all run races BEFORE the introduction of Lasix.
There was a time when horses ran without lasix. So clearly, it’s possible.
It is a statement about the sport in America that many have decided it’s just fine to medicate all with lasix.
IMHO, no horses should be medicated with lasix. If they are bleeders, they shouldn’t be running. Period. It’s a trait we shouldn’t be breeding for.
The simplest solution to many of these problems is to have a no-drugs-on-race-day policy. If the horse isn’t well enough to run without meds, he/she shouldn’t be running.
Gosh, I don’t remember stories of Citation (45 starts) bleeding, or Seabiscuit (89 starts), or John Henry (83 starts).
[QUOTE=luvmytbs;7491549]
Go to Dubai and then tell me it can’t be done.
An P.S. how did they all run races BEFORE the introduction of Lasix.[/QUOTE]
Are you aware that the horses that run in Dubai do not stay there for very long? The race meet is short. They run at night. It does get chilly at night in Dubai. You are lucky to get under 100 in Dallas on a summer night.
Before Lasix? Simple, more horses bled out. We now have a solution, why would you deny the horses that solution? If no bleeders should be bred, then no horses should ever reproduce. They all bleed.
I can tell you that I’ve watched more than one of Asmussans horses pull up bad, and I mean bad. We claimed horses at Keeneland and would not touch one of his with a 10 foot pole. There is a reason for this.
I can very much tell a bad mover from a sore one, guarantee you that one. Just because a horse looks good (shiny coat and not a wormy bag of bones) does not mean that they are without problems.
Once again, PETA obviously did their homework and went after the top, because absolutely no one would pay attention if it was Joe Shmoes barn from Retima Park.
As far as the vets and Lasix…they are scoped and a slip is filled out. They are only supposed to be on Lasix if they actually bleed. That is going to be where the vet has some explaining to do.
Does it really matter how long it took PETA to come out with this video? Yes, that they did it before the Derby, but really, what difference does it make? It is what it is, and I’m betting there is more to come. Sure they have an agenda, they wouldn’t have done the investigation if they didn’t. Kind of a no brainer.
[QUOTE=Angelico;7491524]
Exactly. If they do bleed badly, chances are we won’t know until we race them. If they are a bad bleeder, Lasix won’t stop it but it sure will help. I won’t run anything that bleeds through Lasix, but I have no way of knowing if they bleed or not until they race. There is nothing complex about it, it helps open up their airways and prevents bleeding to a certain extent, and it makes them pee. Not a complex thing, not a steroid, not a hop. A preventive measure.[/QUOTE]
Clearly you should learn a little more about Lasix and how it works…are you aware that you can scope horses after they work?
