[QUOTE=Angelico;7491572]
They all bleed.[/QUOTE]
I have nooooo idea who fed you this crap!!!
A couple of people have asked me to comment on the PETA allegations, re: Asmussen and Blasi. I assume I have been asked because I worked for Asmussen for 2 years, and I have been vocal on horse welfare issues, mostly on the slaughter issue. So here are my few thoughts:
- I worked for Steve for 2 years. Had a terrific experience, and was never exposed to anything I questioned with regard to animal welfare. On the contrary, our horses always looked terrific.
- I never worked for Scott Blasi. I presume he does have the welfare of horses top of mind, despite the rhetoric we heard in the report. I presume that because he works for Steve, as his right hand man.
- Scott does have a reputation for poor use of language. No hiding from that. I also assume (an assumption here) that the under cover PETA person was cute, and Scott was trying to impress … (that is not how I would try to impress)
- The free use of medication observed in the report is part of a wider racing culture, not something specific to the Asmussen barn. That needs fixing. No arguments from me. It is a HUGE problem in horse racing.
- My very few interactions with Scott Blasi included him asking me if I got my horse. He knew I was very fond of a horse in Canada, and was showing interest in retiring him. I only mention this, because he did seem genuinely interested in the horse, with regards to that inquiry.
- Steve always knew I was working for him, to push my own horse welfare agenda. When I told him I was leaving (mid summer of my second year working for him), his one comment was “Thanks for caring.”
- I do not condone what we witnessed in the video, just wanted to add my perspective. Perhaps this video will, finally, give the industry what we need: LEADERSHIP!
[QUOTE=luvmytbs;7491595]
I have nooooo idea who fed you this crap!!![/QUOTE]
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/12529/eiph-exercise-induced-pulmonary-hemorrhage
Over 90% of them will.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;7491502]
Define needing lasix. I think every horse needs lasix because every horse will bleed sooner or later. I don’t think it is possible to predict when that will happen and only use lasix then.
Blasi said he would fool the stewards by putting a gel cast on the horse. I am 100% against running sore horses and managed to get by for over twenty years without doing that but I don’t want to see gel casts banned.[/QUOTE]
In regards to your first sentence. IMO and experience I have found this to be completely untrue. In regards to your second maybe, maybe not but if one scopes after every race as I do it will give some inclination.
For the record I have been on and around the race track since before Lasix was allowed.
How is given Lasix with it’s well defined side effects as a matter of course any different then putting horse on a regular regiment of Bute, banamine, injections etc because they are going to need it sooner of latter anyway? If I could dig up an invoice from a perfectly sound horse I sent to Belmont who was under the “care” if it could be called that of Dr. (thief) Hunt, the one in the video I could list numerous other “necessary” medications. My first bill from Dr. (T) Hunt was over $900. Pretty much the same every month ±. For a horse that was bred, raised, broke and trained here. The only vet expense I incurred was a post foaling check up. I pulled the horse out of Belmont 6 months latter. He was a wreck.
IMO it is this sort of mindset that has gotten racing where it is today.
This is my opinion as is yours. To each their own.
[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;7491586]
Clearly you should learn a little more about Lasix and how it works…are you aware that you can scope horses after they work?[/QUOTE]
Yes I am. You are aware that many won’t bleed in a work but will after a tough race? I’m sure you are also aware the scoping is expensive, and a preventive shot of Lasix is ten bucks.
They are only going to let you see what they want you to see…Laurie, you should know that!
angelico, you are still missing the point. Horses need to be scoped and there has to be traces of blood to legally be administered Lasix. These are the rules, period.
To those that are upset at the article/PETA tactics, the way to stop them is to clean up your own sport. Those on the inside of horseracing know who are the ones running hurt horses, overmedicating, cheating, abusing employees/horses. If the reputable people IN the racing business don’t get the sport cleaned up, and start demanding that those in charge take action against those that cheat, overmedicate, run hurt horses then you are leaving the sport at risk of being shut down due to AR groups exposing the problems.
It’s not enough for the reputable people in the business to just do things right, themselves. They need to actively get the bad apples out, and get the rules changed and ENFORCED. Because the general public WILL NOT be just wring new rules that have a basis of horse knowledge/racing knowledge…they will be writing rules/laws that will see the demise of the sport and of the TB.
I would reiterate that plenty of horses ran for centuries without lasix.
The article mentioned above does not convince me that all horses need lasix. Further, it does nothing to address the issue of side effects from the drug, like calcium depletion.
I’ve yet to see any convincing evidence that horses should be allowed to race with any sort of drug aboard.
[QUOTE=Angelico;7491620]
Yes I am. You are aware that many won’t bleed in a work but will after a tough race? I’m sure you are also aware the scoping is expensive, and a preventive shot of Lasix is ten bucks.[/QUOTE]
Ah, so it’s just a matter of economics rather than medical treatment.
I say it for every discipline. Breed better horses INSTEAD of throwing technology and the kitchen sink at them. Clean up your house before someone does it for you. Horse folks need to stop with the “I WANT IT NOW!” BS and get real, along with kind. Stop enabling the cheaters. When money rules, horses lose.
[QUOTE=jetsmom;7491637]
To those that are upset at the article/PETA tactics, the way to stop them is to clean up your own sport. Those on the inside of horseracing know who are the ones running hurt horses, overmedicating, cheating, abusing employees/horses. If the reputable people IN the racing business don’t get the sport cleaned up, and start demanding that those in charge take action against those that cheat, overmedicate, run hurt horses then you are leaving the sport at risk of being shut down due to AR groups exposing the problems.
It’s not enough for the reputable people in the business to just do things right, themselves. They need to actively get the bad apples out, and get the rules changed and ENFORCED. Because the general public WILL NOT be just wring new rules that have a basis of horse knowledge/racing knowledge…they will be writing rules/laws that will see the demise of the sport and of the TB.[/QUOTE]
While I agree with your post 100%, sometimes it’s just not that simple. It’s not the fact that other trainers won’t out others, it’s usually a matter of getting someone to listen, having proof and getting someone to actually do something. Gill ran a horrible operation in Md, ( as well as in other states), many witnessed extremely sore horses running, abuse by privately hired vets, and the officials knew this was happening.
The problem was that his horses were filling races, so the ones that could have done something to clean things up were more concerned about the “big” picture, filling races. Hopefully PETA’s video will be a start, and the industry will understand that things need to be cleaned up from the inside. Heavier penalties for rule breakers in every facet of racing.
Around $75 for a basic post race scope. About as cheap as it gets in the grand scheme of things racing. Can save a lot of money in the long run.
While writing this and looking out in our foaling mare paddock I had to take a quick break to run out and “foal out a mare”. Caught the whole thing on video. Beginning to end 5+ minutes. Text book other then one leg being out of position which requires some intervention.
So, based on the “all horses will need Lasix mindset at some point” should I might as well get a jump on things and give it a shot of Lasix? Before it gets up because it might “bleed” from all of the work? Before or after the navel dip and enema?
Second mare this season to foal on a Sunday afternoon. A nice colt by Mizzen Mast
I have no opinion on Asmussen because I have never met him and know very little about him.
I did mention that video editing can completely change the impression you get. 7 minutes out of 7 hours throws away a heck of a lot of context. That there are only 7 hours from a 4 month investigation makes me suspect that there are more tapes. This is an important point, because we’ve seen by other “investigations” that good people have been completely railroaded by such “stings” … and you’ll note that a private person is not going to follow or be bound by the rules that would apply to an undercover law enforcement officer.
I am extremely troubled by the routine use of drugs in TB racing, including its legal use. Someone posted links to articles from the Thoroughbred Daily News (and part 2 that has the medication sheet for Coronado Heights, showing the routine administration to a horse that was “sound and healthy” of 24 injections over a career of six weeks and three races.
For its Aqueduct investigation, Scollay
says, “We asked trainers, ‘Do you have
a regular medication program?’ All of them
said no. And then we asked them, ‘Do you
use clenbuterol?’ ‘Yes, we do and we give it
on a daily basis.’” The way they described it,
she says, “was not like a prescription drug,
which is what it is, but like a feed supplement
you give twice a day.”
You are aware of the fact that Alex Brown would ban people from ABR if they had one bad word to say about Asmussen et al during the time he was working for him, right?
And let’s not forget his “to the death defense” of the “rescues” that were more than shady, including but not limited to CBER and AC4H.
I want to point out the trend I am seeing, especially to Jetsmom. Looking at my FB feed, I see several of my trainer friends circling the wagons to protect the image of racing. I can’t believe for one second that they didn’t cringe as I did when watching the video, they know what’s going on here, but choose to ignore and defend in front of the public. Pointing out what kind of organization that PETA is and how many puppies and kittens they have killed does not change the facts. Either does the fact that the “investigator” was some hot girl that slept with Blasi. Or how many hours/minutes they have on tape, or why it took so long for it to come out. Nice try, but really makes no difference. This is also what’s wrong with racing.
[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;7491631]
angelico, you are still missing the point. Horses need to be scoped and there has to be traces of blood to legally be administered Lasix. These are the rules, period.[/QUOTE]
And I can vouch for the fact that Lasix is administered at CD and other tracks in the area without any medical history of scoping or bleeding.
We went to race in a claiming race at TP one time, and I can’t recall why, but “Buddy” ended up not getting Lasix that day. But low and behold he won - and had lost a shoe during the race, LOL.
And not a drop of blood!
[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;7491631]
angelico, you are still missing the point. Horses need to be scoped and there has to be traces of blood to legally be administered Lasix. These are the rules, period.[/QUOTE]
Not sure where you hang or hung your tack and even though that is the “rule” I promise you it is not followed. I know because I am not a sideline owner. Also a licensed jumps trainer and jock. I read every detail of my vet bills. Have or had horses at a number of first and second tier racetracks. Friends and hold the respect of a number of well known trainers. Many lesser or unknown’s. The majority of Vets just sign the slip and have for years.
When Lasix was first allowed in Maryland the horse had to of been seen by a steward bleeding from the nose after a race before being allowed to run on it. For those that say it is not a PED, which I feel it is, then why in those days did some grooms carry a syringe of blood up their sleeves so as to quickly squirt some up their nose when being “picked up” after a race?
Before Lasix was given like water to 99% horses a horse with the bold face L (first time Lasix) on their PPs were almost always bet down to even money. Even hopeless long shots.
Well aware of how it works Gumtree, been around almost as long as you. Was a rider, galloped horses, trained, bred/owned and worked for trainers up and down the East Coast for many years. Just pointing out that there are rules for how it’s supposed to work when getting a horse on Lasix…my original point was Dr. Hunts statement on this particular tape. I also remember the syringes of blood, not much slipped by me, trainers wanted a level playing field period.
My original statement a page or two back.
“One of the problems (and is going to be a big problem for him) is that the vet admits that he is giving Lasix to horses that don’t need it. Although it’s done everyday, there still needs to be a bleeder slip turned in and signed by the vet. So he basically he’s admitted to falsifying those.”
[QUOTE=Acertainsmile;7491701]
I want to point out the trend I am seeing, especially to Jetsmom. Looking at my FB feed, I see several of my trainer friends circling the wagons to protect the image of racing. I can’t believe for one second that they didn’t cringe as I did when watching the video, they know what’s going on here, but choose to ignore and defend in front of the public. Pointing out what kind of organization that PETA is and how many puppies and kittens they have killed does not change the facts. Either does the fact that the “investigator” was some hot girl that slept with Blasi. Or how many hours/minutes they have on tape, or why it took so long for it to come out. Nice try, but really makes no difference. This is also what’s wrong with racing.[/QUOTE]
That’s EXACTLY what I mean. And that attitude/reaction is what will be the demise of racing/TB’s…not the AR people.
It’s sad that many here have that same reaction. There are far more good people in the various horse disciplines than bad. But the good people absolutely need to put effective pressure on the powers I charge to change rules and ENFORCE them with very severe penalties that will make doing the right thing easy, rewarding, and the much better option. Make doing the wrong thing very painful financially, and make it be possibly career ending if it is repeated. And the penalties need to be against everyone involved…owner, trainer, vet and in some cases the jockey (like with machines). Have vet’s risk losing their license. Have trainers risk losing their license and being banned from track grounds. Have owners risk having ANY of their horses be allowed on the grounds, and risk having the horses involved be banned for a year from racing. (That would eliminate a “faux” trainer being handed off the horse, and racing under their name instead.) Make it so there is public shaming, as well. So owners know in advance that certain trainers can cost you a lot of money and make it so you might never be able to own a racehorse again.
