Off breed prospect - what would you choose?

[LilyandBaron]

All of my horses are rescues, or maybe repurpose is more apt, as they were never truly abused. I bought my OTTB to retrain and sell as a hunter, but I kept her as my hunter then First level horse, and she was partially leased by a kid and did wonderfully. My Azteca was rescued by the person I got him from, and was a real training project! But he did Training level, starter eventing, and given his start, serving as a school horse was huge! My OTSTB was supposed to be a gaited trail/husband horse, now does Intro dressage, low jumps, and working on canter.

I love them all and my journey with each, but I may be in the market for the next horse “soon.” I’ve never shopped for me and my goals, so kind of exciting! I would love to “save” a horse, but I’m also not getting younger and would like a horse with no real limits other than my abilities to meet my goals. So my goals: progress to higher levels correctly, but no major concerns about being a world beater in terms of brilliance. I live near some rated show venues, and nice schooling circuits. I’m in my 40s and fit and rode lots of greenies, so not fearful but also less willing to get hurt as I get older. I’d love to develop a horse up the levels, but also be able to enjoy low level jumping and trail riding, so good brain matters. Up the levels - I mean, if I could train a horse to GP, cool, but let’s say 4th? Set that as the goal, but good at 3rd or hey, FEI dreams, sure. I’d mainly show on the local circuit, and dip my toes into rated just to show what the “off breed” could do.

Outside of the purpose bred WB, what would you put top of your list? Understanding each horse is an individual, but I’m currently thinking I’ll look at OTTB and Saddlebreds. I live in SW Ohio, near KY, so plenty of both. I don’t want to have to spend years just undoing bad training. I’d like a sort of blank slate with enough mileage to know the brain is good, but no major baggage from bad training.

Thoughts? Experiences to share? Cautionary tales?

[hoopoe]

TB. Hands down. The last one I had went to I-1

supple obedient movement is never wrong.

Not that I think a TB is an off breed for dressage but I think bred for the athletics you wish to attain.

[BigMama1]

Conformation suitable for dressage more important that breed IMO. That plus work ethic and “goey-ness.”

Personally don’t love the driving breeds like Fresians, Dutch Harness, etc. unless crossbred with something else with less knee action and better top line. But again, it’s more of an individual horse thing than a breed thing.

[Scribbler]

A quality OTTB or an Iberian cross from a backyard situation :).

[Postandrails]

@BigMama1

That plus work ethic and “goey-ness.”

I just wasted about 2 minutes trying to work out what you might mean by “gooey - ness”. Cute and cuddly? Supple and bendy? Sweet personality?

Ahhh… Goey. Yeah, that makes more sense.

[Texarkana]

Arabians and Arab crosses have had a fair amount of success reaching the highest levels of dressage. They also have their own breed shows with USDF recognized judges, which is nice because you are riding the same tests with the same judges but placed among your peers for awards.

A friend has bred some Welsh and Welsh cross ponies who have been successful up to fourth level IIRC.

[Jealoushe]

Second Arabs! Or Anglos. Always do great in dressage, can be pretty fancy and super sound.

[Feathered_Feet]

I will second the TB. If you can find one with better-than-average quality movement, then you are set. Saddlebreds (like many driving horses such as dutch harness and friesians) will be harder-than-average to get over their backs and round, and you will be fighting an uphill battle regarding overall shape. TBs will be less likely to have this problem, and have among the best work ethics you can get in a horse!

[sheltona01]

A good quarter horse if you can find one that is not downhill. Usually very willing and can be very athletic.

[blue_heron]

Definitely an Iberian or Iberian cross, especially if you loved your Azteca.

I would also consider a draft cross, though you might consider that a warmblood. They tend to be safe and trainable. Agree to avoid DHH and Friesian, though. I would not go OTTB either, though you may love them. I’ve just heard too many horror stories and haven’t had to good experiences others have had.

[Guyot]

I love my DHH but they are harder to get over the back and the basics have to be strong. Once you get them the upper level collected movements are easy. P/P and CP are simple. But you have to find one with not such a upright neck and little less knee action and be good at getting them over their backs.

I love a good OTTB, and if your comfortable going to the track you can find them. I always went end of year and looked at turf horses for my event prospects. There was one I sold on who was to lofty in his gaits and jump that if I could find “him” again would have made up to FEI horse no question.

All that said a purpose bred warmblood with good mind and conformation is the easiest to train up the levels. But the price tag reflects that.

Right now I have a DHH filly who is very nice. I’m on the start of year two with the changes… they are coming but let’s just say not there yet. Same age and timeframe Hanoverian gelding started changes same week. He had a clean change in both direction in two weeks and he’s working 4s and 3s now… he’s not as strong as my girl but he finds the work easier.

Both will show 1st this year (no show experience due to Covid last year) and depending on strength and progress may debut 3rd by fall.

Every horse purchase has a compromise… find the one you can live with that supports your weakness and magnifies your strengths and find support from a good trainer.

[exvet]

I like the others recommend on focusing on individuals that based on conformation and having 3 pure gaits are better able to meet the demands. I also put disposition/temperament at the top of my criteria must have’s as well. I have successfully shown a number of welsh cobs, welsh cross breds, morgans, arabians, etc in dressage. They all had their trade-offs in terms of challenges but they all also have had the heart and soul of a lion which has made them priceless. Currently I’m riding a welsh cob at third (showing successfully at second level) and a morgan that is going to start showing (turns 4 in June) soon. I backed/started both and their dispositions have made it a fun process. I will never see the high scores that the purpose-bred warmbloods bring but I still have achieved success and personal accomplishments that no one can take away…I will also say that, at least for me, these guys met the shoe string budget criteria and have no prior baggage for me to overcome (one is a homebred and the other came straight from the breeder) which has always been my choice in minimizing challenges that previous training can leave.

[LilyandBaron]

I love my OTTBs, having worked in sales barns for years. My mare was bought as a hunter, very correct but not super uphill. However, had I started on the dressage path sooner, she could have gone farther. I like that most OTTBs are pretty “green” in the mouth. The worst horses in sales barn were badly “trained” dressage types - victims of crank and spank tactics:(

With the harness types, my STB is eye opening. Great brain, but tougher than a TB. Is it training or conformation, likely both. I’ve seen some amazing ASBs, ones not cut out for saddleseat, but have never attempted to convert a saddleseat started horse to anything else.

Hadn’t really put Arabs on the list, but nothing is off the list. Even a WB, but most in my budget have issues;)

[oldernewbie]

Hint: we know each other IRL - you came to a couple of clinics with Pierre when I rode my gray Arab!

I now have a new horse - 3/4 Arab, 1/4 Saddlebred. So obviously I would second or third the Arab suggestion. My Arab trainer gets calls now and then from people with dressage Arabs - if you want I’ll keep you in mind. We had a really cute and talented one mentioned a few months back - so they are out there. And this one was already restarted as a legit dressage horse, so ready to go. (ETA: he was also VERY reasonably priced - another advantage of Arabs!)

I would also suggest Appendix QHs - I’ve seen some really handsome ones and they seem to be trainable and good natured.

Finally, my dressage instructor has several really good warmblood prospects you might like to see. She’s in Wilmington. They are probably priced reasonably. And she always hears of more. PM me and I’ll put you two in touch.

[hoopoe]

I agree on arab and arab x along with proper type Morgans, Have seen several in my region do very well in the ring. Pleasant willing nice athletic size for most riders.

Also agree about driving types with longer flat back as well as many draft crosses which can be cold and clunky.

buy type and temperament. Trot can be improved, find a good walk and canter.

[MsM]

Which “off breeds” might suit you depends upon your preferences. A green OTTB will present quite different issues from a green Morgan or Arab, etc. Of course they are individuals, but you can narrow your search if you know, for example, that you prefer a more baroque type or a TB type.

When I was looking, I knew I wanted a calm brain first. And then I didnt want to spend a lot of time trying to undo training. That eliminated a lot of horses for me. The horses started saddleseat were more of a project than I wanted, as were some “western broke” horses. The horses ridden hunt seat generally seemed the easiest to convert to dressage (all else being equal)

I tried a couple of nice TBs that could have worked, but then realized that my heart was still with Morgans (or Morgan type) when I found one without a saddleseat background. I watched him move and knew that he would be quite capable of higher level dressage than I have ridden! And that has proven true as we are already there and knowledgeable trainers are impressed with his potential. But mostly, he makes me smile to see him and work with him and we just suit each other. That is what I had hoped to find!

[eightpondfarm]

Mustangs Warm Springs HMA and also Devils Garden HMA are drafty types. Def go-ey. I have three WS starting now and one Beatys Butte also is looking good under saddle. They have a lot of try and do not give up because there is no such thing as being tired. Not sure about the jump part, my WS crew are really heavy horses. My dressage in training is a domestic, she’s a grade mare with curly hair… big shouldered, long-nimble-legged mare. She is lead mare in my domestic band of ten and quite sure of herself. If i ask for something easy, she’ll offer up the harder version determinedly and i just have to laugh. Nothing is too hard for her…(well, not YET anyway, but we’ll get there lol)

i have a lot of different breeds in my domestic herd: A Morgan, an Arabian, a Percheron, a QH cross, a Standardbred, a Missouri Foxtrotter, that curly cross mare i mentioned, two mules and an Akhal-teke sport (dam was TWxArabian). Of them all, only three have what i think is a good body type, and two of those have odd gaits (Foxtrotter gaits and Standardbred paces). I’m putting most of my hopes in the mustangs and that curly mare.

[mzm_farm]

Bad training can happen in one ride or first 30 days. Just look for a horse that naturally moves well for dressage and has the brain and personality you enjoy working with. As you will be buying a going horse, by the sound of it, papers etc no longer matter, look at the individual in front of you, regardless the breed. Keep in mind that judges still like big flashy gaits better then very correct but more conservative looking gaits, so if show success is of import, buy the gaits!

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

Do you prefer a lighter, hotter horse, or a horse that’s not quite so hot but may require more from you?

I’d go with a TB or Arab (or Anglo-Arab, or Morab) myself - but I love both breeds. I prefer a horse that has what I term ‘cruise control’ - when I ask for a gait, I get it immediately, and it’s no trouble to keep them there. Every one I’ve ridden has been so eager to please, and had great work ethics.

I’ve ridden some draft crosses - OMG, never ever again. I rode some Georgian Grandes (Saddlebred x Percheron) for a breeder to get her babies started, and a Belgian/QH cross that was an absolute bear. In my experience, the drafts are eager to please, but harder to keep fit and are more apt to take advantage of a momentary lapse of attention to either a.) quit, or b.) grab the bit and do their own thing. Since I’m short and lighter-weight, those guys were not a good fit for me. For someone taller and stronger, they might be.

[Guyot]

Don’t know if I did this right. But video of my girl now a 7 year old DHH I bought unbroke as a rising 4yr old.

Yup not working so trying again… I train horses and not good at this and have love/hate relationship with technology.

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