Oh my… wasn’t familiar with Shagya Arabians… I need one in my life.
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Honestly, photos can’t quite capture his brilliance. btw, on cloudy days he almost looks like a normal palomino…(almost, lol)
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That looks like an entire pallet of Show Sheen. Wow.
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hardly lol, i admit i’m terrible about cleaning my equines up…i don’t groom and i’ve never given any of them a bath. They roll in dust daily… Dunno how i’m ever going to clean one up if i show, none of them know Mr. Hose
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He is uh-mazing!! I didn’t realize until fairly recently that they come in basically all colors and it’s actually the shape of the individual hair follicle that gives them their sheen. So cool!
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I leased a sport-bred NZ TB that was stunning . About as close to textbook perfect conformation as I’ve ever seen in 40 years of hanging with horses. Nice uphill build & could do all the fancy moves. The German Riding Master clinician we rode with a few times raved about him. Only wish he’d had that OTTB mind…
Locally, I’m seeing more & more OTTB that are over 17hh with huge bone and showing the potential for some very extravagant gaits. Some of these horses could get to USDF Silver or even Gold level.
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I’d go a different direction to make this sort of decision. If you want to do 3rd/4th level work with enough correctness and quality to show it for a reasonable score, you’re going to need good training that complements the horse - especially in the first year as you lay the groundwork.
While it’s totally possible you’ll find a diamond in the rough, I’m going to ignore the more rare breeds here. Statistically speaking, you’re unlikely to find one in your budget that is well-conformed with three clean gaits, of reasonable age relative to its training level, and without emotional baggage.
Speaking in gross generalities, saddlebreds (and other baroque and driving type horses) tend to have a longer flatter loin and a flatter croup, which can put the hock further out behind, and can produce a higher stepping hind leg with more hock action that doesn’t track up into the front hoofprints. This horse will carry naturally, but won’t push - especially not through an open swinging back.
They also tend to have a straighter shoulder and an upright neck set. While this can mean that they are very comfortable in a more upper level frame - you will have a lot of homework to do to support that position and make it come from a place of correctness instead of fakeness. Lifting the frame without dropping the back or losing the pelvic engagement may take a long time. You may spend lots of time establishing a slow rhythm on a 20m circle, lifting the back and asking the horse to push forward and down to the hand. Eventually lifting the base of the neck while staying stretched to the hand. You’ll work on encouraging the legs to take longer, flatter strides to cover more ground. As work gets harder, you’ll continually return to the back to ask whether its relaxed and swinging, and whether the horse is honestly to the hand or holding himself with tension.
On the OTTB side, there are perhaps even less generalities because there is lots of variety in conformation. Training wise though, they all need to re-learn what contact is, and they all need suppleness - both front to back and side to side. They need to let you in so you can influence all the parts. You may spend lots of time on baby lateral work, changes of bend, etc. You’re more likely to have a horse that naturally wants to push with the hind leg (and dump weight on the forehand), than a horse that wants to sit and carry. Once you’ve got all the basics, you need to strengthen the back and educate the hind leg to take weight. Done well, you can improve the natural gaits and lift the shoulder for real collection - but it’s not easy.
That’s a long winded way of saying that each of these projects will have unique challenges - and you need to think about where your strengths lie, and what type of ride your trainer is best able to support.
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Sort of glad I’m not in the US at the moment or I’d be hitching up the trailer as we speak 
I would be quite interested in that cross!
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Quite a few modern, popular TB stallions have improved the sport horse potential of racing-bred TBs. AP Indy, Bernardini, Medaglia D’Oro, Tapit, Tiznow, etc. Their get tend to be tall, big boned, and good moving.
For quite a few decades, small and light TBs dominated race breeding, but not so much these days.
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I agree with @joiedevie99 that you are unlikely to find a high-quality, affordable member of some of the breeds mentioned (like Lippizanners and Iberians). I wouldn’t consider those off-breeds for dressage personally anyway, and the nice Iberians are REALLY expensive. I’ve been shopping for a dressage prospect and started out looking for an Iberian but gave up pretty quickly because supply is low and prices are insane. The affordable ones tended to be more of a backyard-bred stock type vs. having good movement for dressage. Or you have to be okay with importing off video, which I am not.
Even nice OTTBs are crazy expensive right now. Yesterday I inquired about one that last raced less than 3 weeks ago and they want $20,000 for it!!! Nice-looking horse but I just about had a heart attack.
Also, I might just be looking in the wrong places but I think it will take a lot more legwork to find a good off-breed because they may not end up listed in the usual “dressage prospect” places. I only have so much time and mental energy to search all of the imperfect horse ad sources.
Since I have a perfectly nice horse to ride and am not in a rush, I might wait until fall or next year and see what happens with supply and demand.
Funnily enough I contacted the seller about that one shortly before you posted! It does sound like a cool cross. Video shows that while he is very cute to look at and seems to have a good brain, he’s not what I’m looking for conformation- or movement-wise. The breeder’s website reveals that their business model is breeding for color.
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Ah, ok then. So I would not be hitching up my trailer then. I am still intrigued by that cross.
I was casually searching for a Buckskin Iberian but that color alone raises the price astronomically. While I’d love one, I’m on the fence about paying for a certain color, even if the horse is otherwise perfect.
No disrespect here - recognizable passage. But this is a perfect example of a horse with a lot of try whose hind legs are out behind it, and as a result is having trouble really coming over the back. You can get it done, it’s just much, much harder.
Someone earlier mentioned Anglo arabs. I had one as my first horse - he was wicked smart, did everything I asked of him (eventing, western, trail riding, stupid teenage stuff like riding bareback with just a neck rope, etc., etc.) The TB improves the canter on the Arabs, but he also didn’t have a huge amount of carrying power for upper level work. Anglos are great - I would just look for one with more TB than Arab at this point. You can register them with up to 75% of either bloodline, but it’s harder to find. Usually people just breed the straight cross.
Is having a taller TB an advantage? Just for the bigger stride? Just curious on thoughts since I saw height mentioned.
I always tended towards bigger horses- but now I’m going the other direction. I have a 15 hand QH! I’m very short though and felt not having such a large body to manage might be an advantage for me as a rider.
But I did sacrifice length of stride.
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I’m currently working with a project horse. She was started by idiots who kept getting bucked off, and then sold cheap to a friend of mine several years ago. We are starting her under saddle, which is proceeding.
However as a type of horse, I see a lot of dressage talent. She’s half Lusitano half TB, but looks Iberian. Probably about 15 hands, I was happy to go smaller. Buckskin :).
Interestingly, I looked up her Lusitano sire online and while he is lovely and part of a reputable barn, yes, for my taste he’s got too much knee action and/or hasn’t been schooled up past about First level so hasn’t been educated to extend.
In contrast, unbroke out of the field, this mare has more reach and a lovely canter, obviously from the TB side. Obviously she’s not a WB, but she has gaits and a motor you can build on. I know how to get horses to lengthen.
She’s a true “fallen through the cracks” horse, and I have taken her on as an experimental project. If things don’t work out I can give her back to have beautiful babies in a field. I have been working with her for a year now, and I absolutely would not have bought her at the start, too much of a risk.
Anyhow, I love everything about her except her moments of panic under saddle 
which I think we can fix. As a cross, I’d definitely recommend looking at an Iberian x TB. I know another one that turned out very nice, but also very different type.
However, I don’t know if this is an affordable type of horse if you want one with a clean criminal record :). I don’t think I’d be allowed anywhere near this horse if she’d been on the normal fast track to bring a good citizen.
BTW, if anyone is looking for good ammie friendly Andy/WB crosses, I believe affordably priced, I would recommend a breeder way up in Northern BC called Elly Foote. I’ve seen a couple of her horses come through my barn, they are clearly well handled/started and nicely put together. Andy/WB is another really nice cross.
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FWIW, the family lines I’m using to purpose breed Arabians for dressage (and eventing) have also been used in some working western (reining, cutting, and actual ranch horses). The same family lines have also produced some upper level dressage horses over different generations. The combination of their physical features, interior characteristics, and history of producing sound athletic horses is what drew me to these lines.
Mine DO have more bone and more slope in the hindquarters than most of the modern show lines, but I sure don’t start them at 2-3. I typically start them under saddle at 4 or 5 to give them time to get through the funky qawky growth phases. They get plenty of handling and free exercise prior to that so they have been rather easy to start.
There are Morgan breeders similarly striving to produce capable sport type Morgans from lineages of proven athleticism and “working” type, too. There’s a scattering of Saddlebred folks breeding for sport, too. Don’t overlook those of us breeders who are trying to stack the deck for sport type in our “non-traditional” sport breeds.
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In dressage length of stride isn’t an issue. The judge is looking at the training and development of that individual horse. A well trained horse demonstrating its progress through the scales of training is a well trained horse, regardless of size, shape, colour, breed or equine fashion trends. Which, of course, is the joy of dressage.
Carl Hester purchased Valegro extremely cheaply because the horse failed the first stage of its stallion grading. Don’t think big, beautiful, black Dutch WB, think more black stubby cob. CH had seen Valegro canter loose and had been impressed by his hock action and power. After a few months, CH took Valegro back to the Netherlands, in his horsebox on the way to another show, to return him as being fairly useless. 5 days later he picked Valegro up again on the journey back home because the Van Olsts said “keep him”. The rest is history. He is still surprisingly stubby and cobby in person.
Another Carl Hester horse, Nip Tuck managed 7th in the Rio Olympics even though CH had him by mistake. Hester purchased a load of Dutch horses, sent them on to their new owners and then realised the horse he had bought for himself had been swapped and sold on by mistake. He kept Nip Tuck because the horse showed such willingness and heart. CH managed to get Nip Tuck up through the levels purely through good training, the work improving and building him up, overcoming a less than ideal shape.
Walk and canter are key, trot can be greatly improved with training. Stride length: extension and collection is part of that training.
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I’m totally in agreement! I did see it mentioned up thread about thoroughbreds now being 17 plus hands mentioned as if it was an advantage. I was just curious if that’s what people looked for.
I just bought a young quarter horse with a decent amount of thoroughbred in him. His trot is definitely his weakest gait. I liked his walk and his canter though. I wouldn’t say he is a fantastic mover but I liked his mind, seems very willing and tries hard. A little bit sensitive and a little bit spooky but I kind of like that added sensitivity for a dressage horse anyways.
I want to just school third level if I showed it and got even close to 60% I would be pretty thrilled! Really I just plan on enjoying the journey and trying to be the best we can be. He has good bone And so far has been very sound seeming.
I have known a couple of people that have taken Quarter horses or appendixes to Grand Prix. So should at least be able to advance my own skill set.
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I, personally, don’t want a tall horse for a variety of reasons. I also don’t want a horse horse with a naturally huge stride that clears the entire long side of the arena in an instant
I’ve not seen a case where size (17hh+) is an advantage.
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I rode a 17.1 jumper with some serious scope over a summer camp session. That was an amazing advantage cross country and hunting. Fences seem a lot smaller on a big horse. I can’t see it being an advantage in dressage though. lol
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Yes, I should have specified for dressage 
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