I have been watching a lot of jog videos of horses on the track or freshly off. Many of them seem to have a tight-behind short stride. I could be looking at bad horses I guess but it seems to be in all pretty consistently.
What causes this and what can a rider do besides give it time and correct riding to help this movement improve? Can you expect it to improve much?
They are generally sore and tense and haven’t really been encouraged to use themselves at the trot. Many get over it, some never do ( but then some horses who aren’t off the track never relax either.)
there’s several reasons a horse might be tracky - it takes a lot of looking at OTTBs and a lot of developing your lameness eye to gauge why the horse is doing it and to look past it and identify when you have that “diamond in the rough”.
there are lots of reasons i find they might move “worse” on the track than they do at home - first and foremost is the intensity of their work out - racing is hard – they get sore. secondly, they are stalled – working hard and being stalled is a great recipe for stiffness. a lot of the jog videos are horses pulled right out of the stall so they haven’t had a chance to limber up yet. there was a study a while ago on the effects of stall rest and it is no secret that stalling is detrimental to the horse’s structure – most often, you see these horses “stand under themselves” – that is a sign of back-soreness. third is their angles - many of the race horses are shod in a manner behind that encourages very under-run heels and a long toe which IME compounds the likelihood of stepping up and short behind.
last, is obviously, lameness or old injuries.
Much of it is tension, for a variety of reasons most of which have already been stated (sore back, sore feet, etc). They are usually very fresh when pulled out and asked to jog in hand, resulting in a high, stiff neck which contributes to the stiff topline and lack of swinging movement. Adding a lipchain (often for good reason) will make most any horse tighten up as well. It takes experience and imagination to know what the horse might look like with his head down, back loose, and stretching freely through the shoulder.
What I try to focus on is how do the upper joints move: does the horse swing under himself from the stifle? Does the shoulder open up through the elbow? For some horses, this potential is best viewed at the walk (or on their race videos) rather than a groom jogging it like flying a kite. Some sewing-machine leg action is to be expected, but the more “body movement” you can see, the better.
eventerAJ, agree with you there. sometimes you are better served watching replays of the horse’s race - especially if they won… usually you get a glimpse of the trot before the positions are announced.
i wonder if anyone would be willing to offer “then and now” videos / comparisons of horses moving tracky at the track jog and then how they move after a let down period?
would be good for helping people develop their eye…
i can dig up my guy’s track video and a recent U/S video if people want but he wasn’t very “tracky” in his track jog video… didn’t help that his jogger had his own race injuries :lol:
[QUOTE=beowulf;8558011]
eventerAJ, agree with you there. sometimes you are better served watching replays of the horse’s race - especially if they won… usually you get a glimpse of the trot before the positions are announced.
i wonder if anyone would be willing to offer “then and now” videos / comparisons of horses moving tracky at the track jog and then how they move after a let down period?
would be good for helping people develop their eye…
i can dig up my guy’s track video and a recent U/S video if people want but he wasn’t very “tracky” in his track jog video… didn’t help that his jogger had his own race injuries :lol:[/QUOTE]
Oh man, I wish I would have taken a video of my guy right off the track! I bought him based off his replays where I saw a lovely trot after he had won a race, but when I brought him home I thought I bought the wrong horse! He had this tracky, hocky (?) trot and couldn’t canter correctly. After momentary panic, I realized he was probably just sore and stiff and needed some time. I gave him a few months to be a horse and one day I noticed him trotting in his field, and his pretty daisy cutter trot was back!
So in his case, time was what he needed, but I too am curious how you could tell from a track video whether the horse is just a crappy mover or if his body just needs some time to heal.
[QUOTE=SugarCubes;8558123]
So in his case, time was what he needed, but I too am curious how you could tell from a track video whether the horse is just a crappy mover or if his body just needs some time to heal.[/QUOTE]
A lot of it is just gauging the horse - look at the sum of all the parts. Look at their limbs and how they stand - are they standing under themselves? Are their toes long? This all changes how they move. Like EventerAJ said, watch their body - you should see a fluidity in the joints with each movement. The shoulder should move freely and not abruptly, there should be visible and even movement through the back and despite the up/down (you said “hocky” - that’s a good term) of the hind end you should see a glimpse of tracking up. Listening to the hooves should yield a consistent, even beat - sometimes it is easier to hear the discrepancy to see it. For this reason I always ask the handlers to jog the horses on pavement.
I like to watch the walk the most - you can usually tell how a horse is going to move by watching their walk. I want overtracking and will pass on a horse that I don’t see a nice walk from. In trotting a lot of them tense up which tends to shorten the stride and produce a choppy gait - they should still be tracking up (or close to it) – learn to catch the “glimpses”. Always pay special attention to the turns - which legs they favor if any – lots of SI and hock issues practically scream when the handlers do that tight turn around at the end of the jog. I use the first jog away to watch for soundness - I’ll watch directly behind to see and listen for evenness or lack of. The lap back some horses get too hot but you can tell a lot about soundness (or lack of) in a horse when they do those types of antics.
Sometimes the handlers ruin a jog inadvertently - they don’t run quick enough, or they run too slow - sometimes the horse is just downright uncooperative.
When I’m looking at a prospect, I tend to gravitate towards the horses who are less up and are more in-tuned with their handler. I like adjustability.
Here is an example of a horse that is stiff and sore in his video, but still overtracks at the walk - note how he’s a little “hocky” behind at the trot:
http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/midnight-tucker-5-year-old-16-3-h-dark-bay-gelding/
Check out the angles behind and the fever rings – as well as how he stands “under” a little. I think all of these contributed to his “meh” video.
I took that horse home and vetted him - nothing wrong with him that the tincture of time couldn’t heal. As the description says, good mover - but the transformation he made at home was very dramatic. Fixed the angles in his feet, gave him full T/O and an easier work load. He is a very nice mover and moves much better than most of the WBs at the facility I train with. In October I had a dressage trainer ask me if he was an Escudo II baby :lol:
I used to own a mare who was one of the worst I’ve seen in terms of this “tracky” movement you speak of. She had tightness all around, but particularly in her whole hind end. Her movement was “sticky” and “stabby” as I used to call it. Really stabby in her hocks. Long story short, it completely went away after about a year off and lots of turnout. She ended up being a really loose, gorgeous mover!
But as others have said, some eventually relax through their body and get over it, but with some the damage is sort of done, so to speak. Whether it’s from injuries, or just general wear and tear… it’s really a horse-to-horse basis.
I would love to see before and after videos if anyone has some.
I had an OTTB. He ended up spending the middle part of his life turned out to pasture for 9 years. When I got him back home and started riding him again, it took about 6 months to get rid of the pony trot. He was tense and quite a hot horse. We did eventually get a decent trot.
My youtube channel has a lot of video’s of Tb’s in various stage of training- https://www.youtube.com/user/jleegriffith/videos
and I used to chronicle the retraining of the canter mid atlantic horses via blog. Most Tb’s are tracky behind which is why you need a good eye to see tracky vs lame. Many flex off to certain degree as well but resolve with time. I will dig up some examples.
Ok, got some:
Lysander arriving from track- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZqL2qsrOcM and one month later- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnH7YNjZL68 and almost a month after that- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFJiWQw-7QU now this horse was vetted and flexed off. Later xrayed perfectly clean in hocks/stifles but just tight coming off track and he was a growing 3yr.
Different version of tracky…the weird hock motion
right off trailer post tack- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McWfr8-Y7FI only a few weeks into being ridden but starting to engage hocks under body instead of out behind- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWhuX_XRKMw
This one was pretty ouchy behind- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq7bWYk9IVQ and a month later https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0JbP6jvyT8 starting to soften up behind. They often get worse before they get better as the muscles start to change.
Pretty tight behind coming off track- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tJF1ZkZV7s and starting to get there but as you can see still a bit “stuck” behind and not wanting to go forward https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uoxo-Swk0_o
Found the video of one I bought from Jleegriffith…but he was too good of a mover right away…probably because he didn’t race much. LOL
He’s become even better (and good over fences)…and I’m thinking hard of just keeping him for myself instead of resale. So not good for this thread…
But basically most will change a lot. You just have to look at their conformation and mechanics. I’ve never found it that hard to tell…but then I’m the type that can see past skinny etc too. Some people can’t.
I’m also someone who when building my farm or changing my house has no trouble imagining what my builders are telling me will change or too envision and even making additional suggestions.
You have to have that kind of eye that sees structures (or horses), understands mechanics of how they move and change and can imagine them forward…
This was my personal horse who came off the track when he was 8 after 50 races and started in work as a 9yr. I often think watching videos of the beginning it looks really awful…he looks stuck…unhappy…sore and cranky but this is often a bit of the process of getting them to better so I will post it because it is relevant- https://dixierumble.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/looking-back-at-letterman/
[QUOTE=Jleegriffith;8559761]
This was my personal horse who came off the track when he was 8 after 50 races and started in work as a 9yr. I often think watching videos of the beginning it looks really awful…he looks stuck…unhappy…sore and cranky but this is often a bit of the process of getting them to better so I will post it because it is relevant- https://dixierumble.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/looking-back-at-letterman/[/QUOTE]
WOW the difference is amazing! He looks so much more supple. Good job!
They definitely aren’t good at trot when they come off the track. A racehorse doesn’t need to trot. But all our lessons horses are OTTB and they have turned out wonderfully!
BFEN bought this one- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aHjGrXtHkA
this was him after a nightmare of a trailer trip. He is funky behind but just tight/muscle sore. You could see he was the real deal.
Most of mine sell so fast that I don’t have much after video but it would be fun to get some from buyers. I keep a sold horses page on my website and update it with pics of horses in their new jobs but video might be cool too.
I kept a before and after page here and it always blows my mind- https://dixierumble.wordpress.com/before-and-after/
I prefer to always watch the WALK…it tells more is a more imortant gait…In today’s YEH and FEH evals they are placing more emphasis on walk…trot you can fix…but a horse with a long over track deep relaxed Panther like grace and the way they lift n place the front leg will tell,you,so,so much…and at track when looking its easier to get a nice walk then an un tensioned trot…
I had an OTTB with a stabby pony trot who raced till he was 7. I too was reminded of racehorses jogging to the post. I think he’d never been encouraged to use himself at the trot and this had just become the normal way of goikng for him. He was sound and happy, not sore, and had a nice ground-covering canter–probably why he raced for so long.
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