Some of us really can’t be that picky because that’s our only option.
I’ve has this problem in the past too. Now, if I’m trailering in, or I know the stabling is sub-standard, I just do one test a day, pack up and go home. Less stressful for horse and human.
Those wait times are totally normal at those levels. I think it can be even worse for riders showing training and first level in the same day. When you think about the number of people usually showing in those levels, and with three tests per level, then they have to get all of the mid-upper levels in, then they have to avoid conflicts for 6 trainers each riding 4 horses in 8 different tests…
I don’t believe secretaries are thinking about people showing two levels and putting their rides together. They are probably a lot more worried about people having rides too close together
If there is zero shade and only trailer parking available, just don’t attend that show venue or only sign up for one test.
I gripe about early ride times as I trailer 2 hours the morning of the show and ride FEI tests, which this facility usually schedules first thing in the morning. I beg for the latest ride time they can, and end up at 8:45 a.m. In order to make that work, I just ride one test and go home, rather than waiting around and I put another show on my calendar to get another score.
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8741107]
I have had some shows like this. I mention it to the manager, and if it happens again, I avoid those shows. Yes, there are a lot of problems scheduling shows, but if I ask politely and it happens again, I’m looking elsewhere to show.
And, no, I’m not paying $25/$30 a day to put my horse in a stall, and no, it’s not feasible for me to pack up, go home, and then come back again.
It’s usually the same managers where it’s an issue. The one I’ve had a 9 hour wait for also gave me 10 minutes between classes on the same horse at the championships in two different rings where there was a 10 minute walk in between. Same manager.[/QUOTE]
See, and for me? Even an hour either on the trailer or tied to the trailer for my ADHD horse would be a disaster. I won’t show without a stall.
The nine hours suck, but the 10 minutes is against USEF rules unless you approved the short turn around time in writing before the class. That is one that you should have gotten changed with absolutely no issues at all.
[QUOTE=mzm farm;8741162]Perhaps a poll of “ideal wait time” would clue the management in and let riders voice their opinions politely and non-confrontationally
You could do an official poll, such as turned in with entry or a completely anonymous one (put up one is the portopotty 
or somewhere in between.
I vote with my pocketbook and have chosen show venues over the years based on many criteria important to me.[/QUOTE]
Putting my show secretary hat back on - I definitely appreciate the brainstorming for solutions but I will refer you back to my original response. For every rider that wants 45 minutes - there is a rider who wants 5 hours and 45 minutes. If you do a survey, and the wait time does not change in your favor, are you going to think that management is ignoring you? What if the configuration of riders/horses/classes simply won’t allow for it? You’re (a general you’re in relation to the conversation - not you in particular) likely only looking at your ride times and the others in your class - not the show as a whole.
I wish there was more than one option for recognized shows in my current location that did not require overnight travel so that I could vote with my pocketbook
OP- you said that there were 20 or so with a 4+ hour wait time. How many of 'em were unhappy with it? Some of em are there with other riders, so they’d be waiting anyway. Some of em are going to be the “I want to wait” types. Not all 20 are going to be unhappy.
For those of you who have never worked “behind the desk” I’d strongly recommend using some of your volunteer hours for that job. It will be eye-opening. Much like scribing is eye-opening.
Nobody is making you cram your horse on a trailer for 8 hours to wait around.
You could bring a pop up canopy and a fan. Voila, shade and a breeze.
Not really show management’s fault your horse is old.
[QUOTE=rothmpp;8741276]
See, and for me? Even an hour either on the trailer or tied to the trailer for my ADHD horse would be a disaster. I won’t show without a stall.
The nine hours suck, but the 10 minutes is against USEF rules unless you approved the short turn around time in writing before the class. That is one that you should have gotten changed with absolutely no issues at all.[/QUOTE]
Yep. We all have different desires and horses. My horses stand tied for long periods of time from when they are young. I don’t care if they’re ADHD. They can stand not moving in a stall, or mine in a pasture, for hours at a time, so it really is no different.
And, yes, I know the 10 minutes between classes, especially at championships, is against the rules. The response was, there was no other choice. I ended up getting 5 extra minutes and switched with Akiko And her stunning horse, so I don’t know if that helped my ride for the judges to she her first! It happens and I deal. But, this has been an issue with this management with a lot of people, and a lot of people don’t show there any more. I do, sometimes, but honestly I prefer to go to shows that work a bit more for my interests. My next show I had an option of this management, which is a lot closer for me, or a lot longer trailer rider to a very friendly show who works hard to accommodate (and they give bags of grain and wine with ribbons! 
) so guess where I’m going? Longer drive, hotter weather.
I think we realize there is no choice sometimes, but you should let the management know and give them a chance to see what they can do, and the vote with your dollars. I realize they don’t make as much money off of me as people who pay insane prices for stalls, bedding, etc., but it’s a lot of money for me, and I show two horses 8 to 10 times a year and have been showing for 25 years, so I think I’m someone worth thinking about.
No, that rule is only for times between different horses. There is no rule for minimum times between rides on the same horse. DR126.1.b.5
However, it does say consideration must be given to people riding more than one test, but no suggestions are given. DR126.1.b.4
I’ll admit, I’m mostly venting here due to frustration. I hate spending money on a gamble and that’s basically what it’s been.
The previous show was super annoying because of the sheer flexibility they should have had, yet they still managed to put in horrible wait times for a 1/3 of the riders. The show management really didn’t want to hear about it, not even from someone like myself who has been showing there for years on end and knows most of the management team by name. I got the feeling there had been a lot of complaining (and scratches) and the girls working the desk were just done with it. Given that, yeah, I won’t be going back to that show unless the secretary changes. They can cut another 20 minutes out of their schedule, since I won’t be showing any of my horses with them. Another year of lost entries and maybe it’ll be replaced by a better managed show.
The current show has much worse times but they also have a very long, busy schedule. I know the secretary is both experienced (been doing it for years) and probably did the best she could.
That said, shows should be limiting class size or notifying people about the waits with the option of canceling when you’re talking no stabling, no shade, 90+ degree heat and 8 hour wait times. Finding out that is what you’re facing after the deadline for withdraws just seems wrong. Very few horses can handle those conditions easily, let alone do a respectable second test.
I’ve been showing for years and no, it’s not totally normal at those levels, at least not in this region. Yeah, one or two people riding multiple horses or weird test jumps get screwed over but double digit riders doing back to back levels? That hasn’t been the norm, it’s the exception.
As to not looking at the show as a whole, I did, actually. I’ve been playing with the times to figure out what the logic was. I’m not one of the people who got hit with really long waits, my classes were 5 hours apart.
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8741107]
I have had some shows like this. I mention it to the manager, and if it happens again, I avoid those shows. Yes, there are a lot of problems scheduling shows, but if I ask politely and it happens again, I’m looking elsewhere to show.
And, no, I’m not paying $25/$30 a day to put my horse in a stall, and no, it’s not feasible for me to pack up, go home, and then come back again.
.[/QUOTE]
Where do you show that the day stalls are $25? I can’t think of a show around here where a stall doesn’t run you at least $100, if they are offered at all. Most shows don’t offer them.
[QUOTE=soloudinhere;8741283]
Nobody is making you cram your horse on a trailer for 8 hours to wait around.
You could bring a pop up canopy and a fan. Voila, shade and a breeze.
Not really show management’s fault your horse is old.[/QUOTE]
Neither of the two shows I’m talking will a) allow you to pop a canopy as trailer parking is already tight and b) provide electricity for a fan. But thanks for trying.
You are right, it isn’t their fault that my horse is old. What is their fault is the scheduling will result in me scratching (cause yeah, I care more about my horse than ribbons) and that will result in me showing elsewhere next year.
And having looked at the USEF competition reporting form, yes, there is an area to complain about scheduling. Guess I’ll do that for these two shows and just avoid them in the future. Office fees and all that overhead is just too much money for only one test.
Time to read your rule book again. 10 minutes it totally legal unless you are riding different horses. Same horse, back to back classes is fine. DR126.1.b.5 covers it.
Maybe this is part of the problem … experienced show secretaries misunderstand the 50 minute rule and end up having to spread things way out to make the classes work…
As a longtime h/j competitor, this “issue” is not on my radar. At least you have A time at ALL. Bring hay, water, a lead rope to graze your horses, snacks for you and a book.
I have battery powered fans, they are genius for shows. Braid the second horse at the event.
I often open all windows and doors and let my horses chill with hay, untied, on the trailer while I sit nearby reading. The trailer has mats for standing and with everything open is very comfortable.
[QUOTE=flyracing;8740911]
I think you’re really complaining about the lack of stabling. Having hours between ride is totally normal occurrence. That’s just the way your rides fell. For each person that complains that there was too much space, another person is going to complain that they had to warm up there horse again with not enough rest (on a too hot of day out in uncovered arena (note the complaining about things a secretary can’t control)).
Scheduling the classes had nothing to do with you. They have to schedule for riders with multiple horses at multiple or same levels, deal with judging hours limitations or flight schedules, times when the judges must judge together, a handful of legitimate special requests, and still give dozens of people enough space between two rides. When a multi ring show runs the classes consecutively, the scheduling conflicts are never ending, so it isn’t possible.
Honestly, I don’t beleive you have a legitimate complaint and if the situation didn’t work for you, then your need to change what YOU chose to do to make yourself happy. Now you know that you either need to go for two classes if there is stabling, or enter one class when hauling in, or he prepared to scratch a class when the scheduling and weather don’t work out to your liking.[/QUOTE]
I have been to several h/j classes where there was NO wait time between classes. Competitors rode into the arena, did their first O/F round, stayed in, did their second round, then left. And in between classes, U/S and then O/F, they never get off their horses.
It sucks, but if they and their horses can do to O/F trips, then go take their break at the trailer, why can’t dressage competitors do two tests, say, a couple of rides apart? Say, do First - 3 in one arena and then, after say 15 minutes or so, do Second - 1 in another arena?
And why stand a horse IN a trailer for hours? Why not tie him TO the trailer, with hay and water and what breeze there is? Or hand-graze him in the shade?
I don’t know anyone who leaves their horse IN the trailer at a show.
Yeah, once we get in the ring we can do back to back trips in the hunters. But not the jumpers. And there is no “ride time.” We hold rings for hours!!! So don’t look to Hunter/jumpers as a model.
I am the show secretary for 4 schooling dressage shows per year. I use software, which is easier than pen and paper, but still doesn’t remove the need for me to actually look critically at the schedule and move stuff around that doesn’t make sense (and even then I miss some stuff and riders respectfully ask for a change and I usually can accommodate). The software does look for certain conflicts, but it doesn’t have setting for minimum or maximum times between rides, or the ability to separate people with the same coach, etc. - all that has to be looked at by the secretary. I have far more complaints about long waits between classes than short turn around times between rides (unless the two rides are on different horses!) and almost all our venues have at least some stabling available (for $25/day and $35 for overnight). The only people who typically end up with really long waits are those riding really different/unusual level combinations (like Intro and 2nd!).
All that said, I run schooling shows so I can do things my way! I actually take scheduling request before making the draft schedule and then will accept change requests before finalizing the schedule. I am guessing most recognized show secretary can’t or won’t do this. Sometimes it is truly maddening (like when everyone want to show in the afternoon…I obviously can’t schedule 60-70 rides after lunch!), but most of the time, I can accommodate the majority of the requests and riders are more understanding of those I cannot accommodate. I think the scheduling flexibility, along with keeping the shows as close to on-time as possible, has results in our shows going from barely surviving to almost all being over-filled with a waiting list!
Because the rules are different in dressage.
- Rides are given a specific start time
- Classes must be run in their entirety, you can’t have rides in willy-nilly order. (Except maybe at the end of the last day of the weekend when multiple scratches make the schedule look like swiss cheese, and the judge gives permission for riders to just come in when ready to get the show over with and get people home.)
- Because each ride has a specific score sheet for scores and comments and it would be a nightmare for scribes to find the right test in the pile if there wasn’t a certain order to it. It would also drive judges crazy, jumping from test to test (although that happens, obviously when you have a bunch of one-ride classes).
It would take a major re-engineering of the procedure, just like it would be a major upheaval for h/j shows to switch to scheduled rides and outlaw the practice of holding up a ring until a trainer can come watch precious ride.
[QUOTE=leheath;8741381]
I am the show secretary for 4 schooling dressage shows per year. I use software, which is easier than pen and paper, but still doesn’t remove the need for me to actually look critically at the schedule and move stuff around that doesn’t make sense (and even then I miss some stuff and riders respectfully ask for a change and I usually can accommodate). The software does look for certain conflicts, but it doesn’t have setting for minimum or maximum times between rides, or the ability to separate people with the same coach, etc. - all that has to be looked at by the secretary. I have far more complaints about long waits between classes than short turn around times between rides (unless the two rides are on different horses!) and almost all our venues have at least some stabling available (for $25/day and $35 for overnight). The only people who typically end up with really long waits are those riding really different/unusual level combinations (like Intro and 2nd!).
All that said, I run schooling shows so I can do things my way! I actually take scheduling request before making the draft schedule and then will accept change requests before finalizing the schedule. I am guessing most recognized show secretary can’t or won’t do this. Sometimes it is truly maddening (like when everyone want to show in the afternoon…I obviously can’t schedule 60-70 rides after lunch!), but most of the time, I can accommodate the majority of the requests and riders are more understanding of those I cannot accommodate. I think the scheduling flexibility, along with keeping the shows as close to on-time as possible, has results in our shows going from barely surviving to almost all being over-filled with a waiting list![/QUOTE]
I do several recognized shows a year, and the way a secretary handles scheduling definitely goes a long way to keeping competitors happy. It takes a LOT of juggling, and not everyone can be happy, but I try, and the competitors appreciate it (have even had people say they were going to stop going to certain shows until they saw they had hired me as secretary). I do take scheduling requests, and do my best to fulfill them.
You have to juggle:
- The trainer riding 6 different horses, two rides each per day
- The trainer riding in the same class as several students
- The trainer coaching 5 different riders (often the same person as 1&2 above)
- The rider with a Presidential Dispensation who cannot ride in the heat
- The rider who lives 4 hours away, but has to work Friday nights, so is driving in on Saturday
- The school horse being ridden by two different people
- The anhydrotic horse who can’t show in the heat
- The trainer who brought several students and horses from 6 hours away (do NOT give them the last rides of the day on Sunday!)
- The rider who is riding three rides in a day on the same horse, and wants two rides back to back to save warmup time
- Freestyle rides in one ring hopefully while there is a break in the other ring so horses don’t freak at the music
- Don’t have Grand Prix riders and Intro riders in the warmup at the same time
And yes, I have had all of the above at the same show!
[QUOTE=yaya;8741393]
It would take a major re-engineering of the procedure, just like it would be a major upheaval for h/j shows to switch to scheduled rides and outlaw the practice of holding up a ring until a trainer can come watch precious ride.[/QUOTE]
There are many h/j venues where they have scheduled rides (in the form of a very strictly adhered to order of go) with basically no ring holding. Spruce Meadows, for example. If you aren’t ready to go when your name is called at the gate, you don’t get to compete. You basically have to be currently IN the ring on another horse/same horse or have had a horse throw a shoe to get bumped down in the order. The only reason h/j has “hurry up and wait” as a standard is because showgrounds let people get away with it. Just 2¢ from the h/j world
[QUOTE=AltersAreUs;8741342]
Time to read your rule book again. 10 minutes it totally legal unless you are riding different horses. Same horse, back to back classes is fine. DR126.1.b.5 covers it.
Maybe this is part of the problem … experienced show secretaries misunderstand the 50 minute rule and end up having to spread things way out to make the classes work…[/QUOTE]
Yes, I do know the rule and yes, I did misspeak here. I stand corrected. My show manager puts a minimum of 30 minutes between same horse/rider unless specifically requested, which is what I was thinking of when responding. It’s really about what works for the competitor, but there are so many different competing issues it is nearly impossible to make everyone happy.
There really is no easy solution. What happens when one ring gets behind? Then the whole one ring than the other ring for two rides throws the whole show off. And not everyone is doing the same two test combo, unlike the hunter scenario with specific classes in a division that everyone rides. The 10 minute between rides at a championship show not in the same ring would’ve gotten me pretty worked up as a rider. Get rung for a no show because my first ride ran late? Oh, hell no. I’m happy it worked out for the poster, but I would’ve told the manager that with large classes they needed to come up with a better solution.
Since we have a number of show secretaries here, how do you handle the person with the anhydrotic horse who can’t show in the heat? If I put in my notes “Please schedule classes X & Y no more than 3 hours apart because my horse can’t handle being out in the heat all day. If you can’t, please don’t sign me up for Class X”, would you do it?
Refund the class fees and only sign me up for Y? Cause at least one of the secretaries in this area has said they don’t do that sort of flexibility with recognized shows. It’s either sign up for both and roll the dice on the timing working out or only sign up for one. I haven’t bothered asking due to that but if there was a chance putting a note in might save me the class fees when the schedule just doesn’t work in my favor, I’d be willing to try it.
