Official Way to Bitch about Ride Times?

[AltersAreUs]

Is there any way to officially complain to the USEF about ride times at shows? Because it’s getting sort of ridiculous around here.

This is the second show this season where I’m going to have to scratch a class because of a 5+ hour wait between rides in what is expected to be 95+ degrees with humidity. My old horse just can’t handle standing in a trailer in that weather for hours on end.

And it’s not just one person (me) repeatedly drawing the short end of the stick.

This upcoming show has 2nd 1 as the first class in the ring at 8 AM and 1st 3 as the last class in the same ring, ending at around 5:30. The first rider of 2nd 1 is the last rider of 1st 3. She’s got over an 8 hour wait. There are about half a dozen riders in both classes who are looking at 6 - 8 hour waits. This is a multi-ring show, so it’s not like there shouldn’t be options

Now I understand that scheduling is a bitch but seriously? Those sorts of wait times are just insane, especially at shows where stalls aren’t an option and the only trailer parking is out in open fields with no shade.

Are secretaries still doing this by hand or is the software just that bad? And is there a way to officially complain or is it just a “vote with your pocketbook” situation? Cause most shows in the area are scheduled by the a very small group of people and getting away from this nonsense leaves me with driving for hours and doing over night shows.

And organizers wonder why entries are down and people who used to do multiple classes are only signing up for one …

[CFFarm]

Is this a schooling show? With no stalls available I would think so. Maybe you should volunteer and show them how to do it. Otherwise:
https://www.usef.org/_IFrames/Searches/SiteSearch.aspx?q=complaint

[AltersAreUs]

Nope, it’s a rated show. 2nd rated show this year that’s given me these long wait times. First one, I groused about, scratched the less important class and moved on with things. Now that I’m looking at the 2nd scratched class due to scheduling, I’m wondering what my options are.

The first show was especially annoying as they had 3 rings running and the show only ran from 8 - 2 due to the limited number of entries. Somehow, even though it was only a 6 hour show, multiple riders still ended up with 5 hour wait times.

[Highflyer]

Fill out show evaluation forms. And say something–politely-- to the show secretary/ organizer when you pick up your packets (or even before you enter). “I’ve always really enjoyed competing here, but these times are kind of crazy. Is there any way they could be adjusted in the future?”

[hoopoe]

this is an issue with the show management, not USEF Unfortunately when you ride the lowest test of the level up from your highest test, this is often how it goes.

But at a show with zero stabling, the management should run the tests in order so that people can come and then leave as their level finishes.

the schedule you describe would be typical at a show with stabling.

[flyracing]

I think you’re really complaining about the lack of stabling. Having hours between ride is totally normal occurrence. That’s just the way your rides fell. For each person that complains that there was too much space, another person is going to complain that they had to warm up there horse again with not enough rest (on a too hot of day out in uncovered arena (note the complaining about things a secretary can’t control)).

Scheduling the classes had nothing to do with you. They have to schedule for riders with multiple horses at multiple or same levels, deal with judging hours limitations or flight schedules, times when the judges must judge together, a handful of legitimate special requests, and still give dozens of people enough space between two rides. When a multi ring show runs the classes consecutively, the scheduling conflicts are never ending, so it isn’t possible.

Honestly, I don’t beleive you have a legitimate complaint and if the situation didn’t work for you, then your need to change what YOU chose to do to make yourself happy. Now you know that you either need to go for two classes if there is stabling, or enter one class when hauling in, or he prepared to scratch a class when the scheduling and weather don’t work out to your liking.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=flyracing;8740911]
When a multi ring show runs the classes consecutively, the scheduling conflicts are never ending, so it isn’t possible.

Honestly, I don’t beleive you have a legitimate complaint and if the situation didn’t work for you, then your need to change what YOU chose to do to make yourself happy. Now you know that you either need to go for two classes if there is stabling, or enter one class when hauling in, or he prepared to scratch a class when the scheduling and weather don’t work out to your liking.[/QUOTE]

I beg to differ. If the OP is seeing 6-8 hour waits between classes like 2-1 and 1-3, that’s crazy. Especially at a time of year when very hot weather is a serious possibility.

I’ve been to very large recognized shows where the time difference between these classes is not extreme like what the OP has experienced. it is possible for it to be worked out.

[flyracing]

I completely understand that is a crazy wait, but what about the other riders? The ones entered in 1-3 and 1-1 or 1-3 and T-3, or 1-3 and 2-3, or any other combination of 1-3 and a 1st or 2nd level test? The same holds true for the riders cross entering the 2-1 class with any other test 1st, 2nd or 3rd level. You cannot give the riders cross entering into these 3 levels all close ride time. Obviously it’s impossible.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=flyracing;8740940]
I completely understand that is a crazy wait, but what about the other riders? The ones entered in 1-3 and 1-1 or 1-3 and T-3, or 1-3 and 2-3, or any other combination of 1-3 and a 1st or 2nd level test? The same holds true for the riders cross entering the 2-1 class with any other test 1st, 2nd or 3rd level. You cannot give the riders cross entering into these 3 levels all close ride time. Obviously it’s impossible.[/QUOTE]

Maybe not close ride times, but 6-8 hours is crazy. My point is that show management could do better than an 8 hour wait.

[Manni01]

I would try to talk to the show management. I had waits like this and I just drove home in between…

[AltersAreUs]

[QUOTE=flyracing;8740940]
I completely understand that is a crazy wait, but what about the other riders? The ones entered in 1-3 and 1-1 or 1-3 and T-3, or 1-3 and 2-3, or any other combination of 1-3 and a 1st or 2nd level test? The same holds true for the riders cross entering the 2-1 class with any other test 1st, 2nd or 3rd level. You cannot give the riders cross entering into these 3 levels all close ride time. Obviously it’s impossible.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it’s not. Show scheduling is a basic mathematical resource allocation problem. There are multiple constraints, true, but high multi-hour wait times should be an exception, not the rule. I’d agree with you if there was only one ring. These, however, are multi-ring shows.

You can’t tell me that there isn’t a better solution than an 5 hour wait between rides when you have 3 rings. And it wasn’t one or two riders or classes … out of less than 60 riders, there were almost a third of us with 4+ hour waits and a dozen with 5+ hour waits. Comments & complaints to the management were brushed off but then again, the probably explains why a show that used to fill up 3 rings from 7:30 to 6:00 PM now only runs from 8 to 2.

Are show secretaries really doing this by hand? Or is the software just that bad?

[rothmpp]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8740918]
I beg to differ. If the OP is seeing 6-8 hour waits between classes like 2-1 and 1-3, that’s crazy. Especially at a time of year when very hot weather is a serious possibility.

I’ve been to very large recognized shows where the time difference between these classes is not extreme like what the OP has experienced. it is possible for it to be worked out.[/QUOTE]

And I am going to beg to differ. I am a long time show secretary. Until you try to work these schedules out, you have no idea how hard it is to get everything to work.

Part of it is the software that many shows use to schedule these days. The software is usually programmed to identify conflicts that are too close together, but adding code to not put rides too far apart likely would make it nearly impossible to electronically schedule a show of any size.

For every rider that wants ride times no more than 30 minutes apart there is a rider that needs 6 hours between to recover. Someone is always going to be unhappy with their ride times. At every show. Without fail. I went for a whole season where I was scheduled in the last hour of the last day of a three day show every.single.show.

Quite a bit of it depends on the the size of the show as well. How many riders with multiple horses? How many rides altogether? How many rings? There is a magic number where it is easiest to schedule. Anything over and anything under makes it exponentially harder.

Sometimes it happens that you end up with the first class of the day and the last class of the day. It appears that OP has the bad luck to have this happen twice in the same year. And OP - it sounds to me like part of your complaint is not just the schedule but the lack of reasonable accommodations for the horses at the facility. No stabling available and no shade available? I’d be looking for a different facility to show at.

[Pipkin]

If customers are having >5 hour waits (especially entering adjacent classes, might be a bit different if you were doing a training and a psg) the venue needs to run another arena. If they don’t have another arena they need to cap classes. I don’t know what entry and membership fees are like in the states, but here it is nooooot cheap.

What do people feel is an acceptable amount of time for a horse to have to wait on the trailer? Obviously barring certain weather conditions (very hot or very cold) I wouldn’t be happy to be waiting more than 3 hours tops and would scratch the second or first class.

[AltersAreUs]

[QUOTE=flyracing;8740911]
I

Honestly, I don’t beleive you have a legitimate complaint and if the situation didn’t work for you, then your need to change what YOU chose to do to make yourself happy. Now you know that you either need to go for two classes if there is stabling, or enter one class when hauling in, or he prepared to scratch a class when the scheduling and weather don’t work out to your liking.[/QUOTE]

And this right here is why entries are down at so many shows. At the end of the day, shows are a customer service based enterprise and this attitude doesn’t reflect that. Piss off your customers by offering the choices of paying $$$ for stabling, paying $$ overhead fees and only doing one class, losing entry fees through scratching or risking your horse’s health and, surprise, those of us without deep pocketbooks will take our business elsewhere.

[Beckham03]

Maybe the person doing the schedule is new and unaware of this? Maybe they are struggling? Have you pointed this out at least with a friendly email? Maybe they just need help.

[SendenHorse]

I think this is really not only about the times:

-stall- did you choose to not have a stall?
-age of horse-
-heat and humidity

So these three things that you complain about aren’t their problem, right? They can’t control these three things

It’s July so the heat is expected. Maybe this isn’t the right venue and time of year for you to make plans?

Sure, I get that this is a long wait, but I’m usually at the show most of a day anyways. I come in with horses showing lower levels so I can’t just plan my day around MY times.

can the USEF intervene over the scheduling? I haven’t read any rules about max waits between show times, it would be interesting to know what can be done about this.
I’d probably write a note on your entry next time to give them a head’s up. I get that they can’t accommodate everyone, but you can try.

I hate the heat, so I don’t show in July

[Beentheredonethat]

I have had some shows like this. I mention it to the manager, and if it happens again, I avoid those shows. Yes, there are a lot of problems scheduling shows, but if I ask politely and it happens again, I’m looking elsewhere to show.

And, no, I’m not paying $25/$30 a day to put my horse in a stall, and no, it’s not feasible for me to pack up, go home, and then come back again.

It’s usually the same managers where it’s an issue. The one I’ve had a 9 hour wait for also gave me 10 minutes between classes on the same horse at the championships in two different rings where there was a 10 minute walk in between. Same manager.

[SnicklefritzG]

I think that’s exactly why some venues are losing their riders. Attendance is down at one particular venue in my area because they are “very disorganized” according to multiple riders.

With so many places to show in my area, people can easily find other places to show where the managers seem to get it right most of the time.

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8741107]
I have had some shows like this. I mention it to the manager, and if it happens again, I avoid those shows. Yes, there are a lot of problems scheduling shows, but if I ask politely and it happens again, I’m looking elsewhere to show.

And, no, I’m not paying $25/$30 a day to put my horse in a stall, and no, it’s not feasible for me to pack up, go home, and then come back again.

It’s usually the same managers where it’s an issue. The one I’ve had a 9 hour wait for also gave me 10 minutes between classes on the same horse at the championships in two different rings where there was a 10 minute walk in between. Same manager.[/QUOTE]

[mzm_farm]

Perhaps a poll of “ideal wait time” would clue the management in and let riders voice their opinions politely and non-confrontationally

You could do an official poll, such as turned in with entry or a completely anonymous one (put up one is the portopotty or somewhere in between.

I vote with my pocketbook and have chosen show venues over the years based on many criteria important to me.

[atlatl]

I’ve never had that kind of wait between classes.

My group has had conflicts where rides were too close together for our trainer to warm us all up. It was really crazy one show where she was showing a horse as well. In that case, I reworked the schedule and went to the show manager with a suggested reschedule. Granted, it wasn’t rescheduling entire classes, just moving a couple of riders around within a class. The show manager thanked me for having a suggestion instead of just a complaint and implemented it.

That said, we’re more careful about how many riders/horses go to a single show so as to avoid that situation in future.

I suggest you call the show secretary/manager and directly as if they can reschedule. Squeaky wheel and all that…