Oh, Deer!

[DancingArabian]

Deer are jerks. They can’t just walk off, oh no. They have to leap and run and make all kinds of skeery gestures.

Anyway. My horse has always had a negative reaction to deer. He’s a fake bolter - he’ll do a truffle shuffle, I half halt him, and his little legs keep moving but he doesn’t cover ground (he’ll canter in place). It’s always been easy to bring him back to me. For the past 2 weeks or so, he has started reacting very negatively and fearfully at deer and will start to lose focus and it’s been getting harder to bring him back. He’s even started rearing a little, which I definitely do not want to escalate. I’ve tried a few different approaches: one rein stops until he stops moving, making him work really hard, changing direction. He just seems genuinely terrified instead of just startled. I also have to be careful to a point since he’s sensitive and I can inadvertently make him freak out if I come down too hard on him.

I’ve also taken him out in hand just to see if the reaction would be different. His reaction is still negative but he is a LOT easier to bring back when I’m on the ground. We’ve done a lot of groundwork so he has always been easier on the ground than under saddle.

• No change in turnout (24/7)
• Same ration balancer pellet and portion size he’s been on for a couple of years
• I added a dose of electrolytes when the weather started heating up about a month ago, to his dinner portion. I also added in a plain timothy grass pellet to make more bulk so he’ll eat the electrolytes and add water to mix it up.
• He’s on a preventative joint supplement - same one and portion he has been on for a long time.
• He is consistently worked.
• 9 year old Arabian gelding
• 2+ years trail experience, primarily solo
• Reaction is lessened if he’s out with a dead head horse, but it does not change if he’s out with another reactive horse.

Any suggestions on how to help him?

I wish I could rent a deer for a couple of hours!

[Simbalism]

Does he spook at other things? Maybe some desensitization work with a variety of things that rustle, float, fly etc. My Tb mare used to be really spooky when she was younger. I often did not have a steady eddy to go out with. I started doing lots of ground work and “bombproofing” clinics with her. Trail walking(in hand). She has gotten so much better, but I honestly think it is because she does a ton of different things from fox hunting, hunter paces, parades, judged trail rides, team penning. Many of our trail rides are at least 5 miles and I think she has kind of learned not to waste her energy on spooking. Does she still spook, yep on occasion when she is fresh. Mostly it will either be a slight scoot from behind or a stop. I frequently take my dog out for trail rides too which helps as my dog is always in action, running up back then into the woods and out again.

[DancingArabian]

[QUOTE=Simbalism;7046025]
Does he spook at other things? Maybe some desensitization work with a variety of things that rustle, float, fly etc. My Tb mare used to be really spooky when she was younger. I often did not have a steady eddy to go out with. I started doing lots of ground work and “bombproofing” clinics with her. Trail walking(in hand). She has gotten so much better, but I honestly think it is because she does a ton of different things from fox hunting, hunter paces, parades, judged trail rides, team penning. Many of our trail rides are at least 5 miles and I think she has kind of learned not to waste her energy on spooking. Does she still spook, yep on occasion when she is fresh. Mostly it will either be a slight scoot from behind or a stop.[/QUOTE]

He’ll spook at other things on occasion, but it’s really just wildlife that’s a concern. We’ve been to many trail/obstacle clinics and he always does fantastic at them (even rode him through a double row of lit road flares). I can drag things that crinkle, make him step all over them, drag things on the ground, drag floating things, etc. We trailer out to new places pretty regularly, usually alone and he’s still great - until the deer come.

He also has a big fear of groundhogs but I have a plan for that one - I was going to get a remote controlled car, put some fur on it and let him figure it out in an arena. He’s fine with tractors, motor bikes, motorcycles, pedal bikes, assorted construction equipment, fireworks, etc etc.

Generally, I don’t consider him to be very spooky. He is a lookie loo and will sometimes do something bizarre like do a haunches in if we pass something set outside the arena rail that he doesn’t like, but he doesn’t start to lose his mind.

[Hippolyta]

[QUOTE=DancingArabian;7046027]
.

He also has a big fear of groundhogs but I have a plan for that one - I was going to get a remote controlled car, put some fur on it and let him figure it out in an arena[/QUOTE]

make sure it makes chittering noises I am picturing something ala Caddy Shack.

Here in the Gopher State the little gopher buggers zip all around and in front of us when we walk home through the field. They startle me all the time. Horse doesn’t care. She is only scared of imaginary things.

As for your deer issue, how about imitating their butt with a white flag or something? Are the deer skeery when they are still, or just when they are moving & flipping you guys off? They have those deer lawn ornaments… maybe you could get one & smear it with molasses.

[Southernboy]

This might not work for you. I had an OTTB that was scared of the attack deer which we encountered several times each ride. When we would be attacked, I started giving a little heel and a very enthusiastic “let’s go get’em” and chased them. When my horse realized that the deer would run from us, it quit being an issue with him.

[GotMyPony]

Is it possible you are escalating the problem yourself because you’re kind of expecting him to “spook worse” now that he did a couple of times? You might be subconsciously tensed up in anticipation which, of course, the horse picks up on. I think the best thing to do when the horse spooks at a deer, provided you don’t have a problem riding it out, is just to calmly say something like, “That’s just a deer silly, she’s not going to hurt you.” No punishment, no extra working, just the calm voice that comes with saying something like that (even though I know the horse doesn’t literally understand English). The more (and more often) you can communicate that seeing a deer is no big deal, the sooner the horse will believe that… you’re the leader, after all.

[Cashela]

I am glad my horse likes deer We had one literally launch across the trail in front of us, almost hitting us and my horse wanted to follow after it:yes:

[kasjordan]

When he does his “fake bolt” and canters in place, are you reining him in? I think your new rearing habit may be because you’re stopping him from going forward and his energy has to go SOMEwhere ,so it goes up…I would maybe encourage/ask for a walk rather than a contained , in place type movement… Are you taking him by himself every time? Maybe a good, solid buddy until he gets over worrying that he’s going to be eaten by the deer. Last horse gets eaten you know Sounds like he needs a little confidence boost of being able to let his guard down.

[GaitedGloryRider]

If he is getting worse as opposed to better the more deer he sees I’d look at myself as the problem instead of the deer.

One-rein stops, hard work etc. seems like a lot of punishment for a fear issue. He could be starting to anticipate his punishment too which could amplify his fear of the deer. When genuine fear is involved I’ve found that patience works much better than punishment for working the horse through it. So long as you’re in a safe place to do so, why not let him move around a bit instead of forcing him to stand still with one-rein stops? Direct his movement, keep him facing the object of his fear until he relaxes enough to stand still? Same thing with the hard work…instead let him move around within reason with you directing him to get his focus back on you. Changing direction is giving him an out, he gets to leave what he is afraid of behind instead of figuring out it isn’t anything to be afraid of. It takes some patience, won’t fix the problem overnight but in conjunction with general desensitization the end result will be much nicer.

Whatever path you chose, if your horse is picking up the vice of rearing that is a sure sign what you’re trying now simply isn’t right for him. Seems like you already know that isn’t a problem you want to continue. My best advice would be to stay relaxed and try to work him through the fear instead of punishing him for it.

[katyb]

Do you ever ride with dogs? I think the reason my horses don’t react at all to deer popping out of the woods is because my dog does it all the time.

[Cashela]

What about riding with a bell?

[KSquared]

I haven’t really read all of the other responses, but I had a thought.

Why not make him a ‘necklace’ you can put around his neck that makes some nose. Some bells that would alert the deer you are coming before you even get there. Then they are not jumping out in front of him and are gone before he gets to them.

http://www.rhythmbeadsforsteeds.com/rhythm_beads.htm

They are really easy to make yourself and I have used them in the past with my Arab cross mare when we went trail riding. It really helped her keep calm and did alert wildlife. I could sometimes hear the bushes as they left the area before we got there.

I would make a set and lunge him in them get him used to them before you try riding on the trail with them. I bet it would realyl help in alot of ways.

[DancingArabian]

[QUOTE=kasjordan;7046433]
When he does his “fake bolt” and canters in place, are you reining him in? I think your new rearing habit may be because you’re stopping him from going forward and his energy has to go SOMEwhere ,so it goes up…I would maybe encourage/ask for a walk rather than a contained , in place type movement… Are you taking him by himself every time? Maybe a good, solid buddy until he gets over worrying that he’s going to be eaten by the deer. Last horse gets eaten you know Sounds like he needs a little confidence boost of being able to let his guard down.[/QUOTE]

He gets a half halt and am immediate release. Going out with other horses usually makes him very concerned and worried and he starts actively searching for trouble. I prefer to ride alone anyway, I’m not much for socializing.

Maybe giant circles instead of trying to contain the motion so much?

[QUOTE=GaitedGloryRider;7046446]If he is getting worse as opposed to better the more deer he sees I’d look at myself as the problem instead of the deer.

One-rein stops, hard work etc. seems like a lot of punishment for a fear issue. He could be starting to anticipate his punishment too which could amplify his fear of the deer. When genuine fear is involved I’ve found that patience works much better than punishment for working the horse through it. So long as you’re in a safe place to do so, why not let him move around a bit instead of forcing him to stand still with one-rein stops? Direct his movement, keep him facing the object of his fear until he relaxes enough to stand still? Same thing with the hard work…instead let him move around within reason with you directing him to get his focus back on you. Changing direction is giving him an out, he gets to leave what he is afraid of behind instead of figuring out it isn’t anything to be afraid of. It takes some patience, won’t fix the problem overnight but in conjunction with general desensitization the end result will be much nicer.

Whatever path you chose, if your horse is picking up the vice of rearing that is a sure sign what you’re trying now simply isn’t right for him. Seems like you already know that isn’t a problem you want to continue. My best advice would be to stay relaxed and try to work him through the fear instead of punishing him for it.[/QUOTE]

He spots the deer well before I do. It usually ends up startling me when he gets startled because I’m actively trying NOT to anticipate anything.

Thing is, generally he doesn’t care about things. Flap things around, charge at him, throw stuff, drag things, dragon floating things, etc - he’s fine with all that. I can even lead him blindfolded. He’s okay with vehicles, noises, things falling - even with a bat wing tractor thing spraying water! Occasionally he will give a blue barrel a good hard stare but I’ll just feel him look at it. In the past, when we’ve encountered things that genuinely scared him, I would calm him down, get down and interact with whatever “it” is, so he could see me and then I’d make him interact with “it”. For example, there was some kind of large construction vehicle (it was gigantic and had tires as big as we were!) that had him quaking with terror. Once he settled down, I got off, touched it, banged it, etc, then I made him put his nose to it. Ever since then he hasn’t cared. I can’t do that with deer though. I wish the Catoctin Zoo would let me rent a couple of deer for an hour!

I will try keeping him in place and making him face the deer and see what happens.

My concern with letting him run is twofold: 1. I don’t want him to think that running away is okay and 2. Some of the fields I ride around have gopher holes in the middle.

@katyb;7046475

Do you ever ride with dogs? I think the reason my horses don’t react at all to deer popping out of the woods is because my dog does it all the time.

He passionately hates dogs and tries to stomp them, LOL.

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I’m going to get him a set of bells again and see if that helps.

Do you guys think if I tried to get him in a cow working clinic it might help? Maybe if he saw he could chase things he’d feel better?

[FineAlready]

My horse is pretty reactive to deer, which usually isn’t a big deal because I don’t trail ride him. But sometimes they come out of the woods near the outdoor arena and all winter long they were hanging out near some of the pastures and terrifying my horse when I walked him from the barn to the indoor arena, lol.

Seeing them pretty much daily all winter seemed to help my horse, although he never was really sure the deer were safe. He definitely did better if I allowed him to stop and study them a little bit instead of trying to just march on as though they were not there. The latter often resulted in spinning/heart pounding/general meltdown.

My trainer was telling me recently that her method of dealing with horses that spook at deer/wildlife on trails is to chase the wildlife off with the horse. So working cows might help, and then you could maybe transition the skill over to deer?

[KSquared]

I think working cows would be an excellent idea. I think this will improve you and your riding. By chasing cows the horse has to really move, duck, crouch and move swiftly and that will give you and your seat a real work out and will really show you how your horse works and reacts and pretty soon you will be able to predict his movements. That one little prickling of a muscle will tell you he is about to move or spook and you can react before it even occurs to him to react.

Plus he will certainly get used to things darting around him. I think after you get done chasing cows (if you ever want to be done) He will be a great trail horse. You never know, maybe that is what he really wants to do is chase cows and that is why he is so reactive is because he wants to cut and chase.

[GaitedGloryRider]

Doing a working cow clinic probably wouldn’t hurt and sounds like a good time to boot! Even if it doesn’t desensitize him to the point he will accept deer you may pick up some new tools to help him along next time you happen to see one on the trail.

[kasjordan]

Or you can almost buy a cow because your horse kicks it in the spine and it drops like a fly…lol… Two years ago, we found out my TWH does NOT like chasing cows or feeling like cows are chasing him! Luckily he doesn’t mind deer and I don’t have to drag their carcasses back to the trailer

[katyb]

He passionately hates dogs and tries to stomp them, LOL.

You wouldn’t get much trail riding in around here with a horse like that.

[Cashela]

Hmmmm, chasing cows, I don’t know, one of my horses doesn’t mind deer but hates cows. Positively panics when there is a cow. She smells them and gets all goofy, forget about it when she sees one, she turns into a prancing idiot. Which reminds me, I have to call my farrier and set up a time to bring the big idiot to his house for a cow lesson.

[DancingArabian]

[QUOTE=katyb;7046989]
He passionately hates dogs and tries to stomp them, LOL.

You wouldn’t get much trail riding in around here with a horse like that.[/QUOTE]

It’s good that I’m not there then

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Things I will be attempting:

• Create a fake groundhog for him to get over seeing scurry on the ground
• Attempt to chase deer
• Try to focus on making him face the wildlife in question
• Try to redirect the motion instead of trying to block it flat out (letting him go in large circles instead of tight circles or hard work)
• Find a cow clinic