Oil!

[dungrulla]

Specifically cocosoya oil. I’m giving it to my gelding right now…it’s been a tough and BITTERLY winter and he’s looking a little ribby which annoys me to no end. So I started adding cocosoya oil to his food. BM had a rep from a feed company come by today (they don’t make cocosoya) and they recommended 1c/day oil to keep the weight/condition on my guy.

He doesn’t look terrible (okay, maybe he does) but he could definitely use a few pounds, especially since he’s an OTTB and not in real consistent work right now.

And yes, he’s been checked thoroughly for ulcers and eats a low-grain, high-fiber diet (soaked hay cubes, a ton of them, for extra calories and about 2q of a low-starch grain per day). I give him ranitidine any time there could even be a risk of him getting GI upset because I’m just that paranoid. He also hoovers food up like a vacuum cleaner and is given a tremendous amount of hay daily. I also worm regularly and rotate wormers every once in a while (I have a schedule somewhere)

NOW ONTO THE REAL QUESTION.

Is there any benefit of cocosoya over say, canola/corn/vegetable/generic food oil? It’s kind of expensive and although he does like it and it smells REALLY good I may turn to a less expensive option.

I do want the best for him though. He’s also on gelatin for his joints and hooves if that matters.

[Frizzle]

First, 2 quarts of feed is not going to supply the RDI of vits/mins/amino acids (unless it’s a ration balancer). I would use www.feedxl.com to balance your horse’s diet and make sure he is getting exactly what he needs.

I love Cocosoya, but it’s so expensive (especially if you have to have it shipped) that lately I’ve just been making my own blend of half olive oil & half coconut oil. My horse loves it, and I can buy the ingredients at the grocery store. Simple!

ETa: I would not feed corn oil, as it his high in omega 6 fatty acids, which increase inflammation.

[jennycash]

I agree with above poster. I would also add some rice bran to his diet. I personally use canola oil. Cheap and decent Omega ratios. Also, lysine helps immensely for putting muscle on horses. It is quite cheap!

[sascha]

Canola. If you have a weight issue on as much hay as he can eat + the necessary amount of grain or grain substitute per package directions, add more oil.

[Flash44]

Agree that you are underfeeding your horse. I like Triple Crown Senior for tbs, it’s low NSC, has lots of beet pulp, high quality protein and good amount of fat. It’s highly digestible, so the horse gets the most out of what he eats. I really think your horse simply needs more concentrate since you seem to already be giving him all the hay he can eat (which is most important).

[dungrulla]

I believe the grain is a ration balancer, but I can ask the BM. I’m not actually in charge of feeding, but I do like to be involved. I bought the oil on multiple suggestions.

He just had his concentrates upped by quite a lot (Tons more alfalfa cubes and I think there may be beet pulp in there too). We don’t want to give him a ton of grain because he has a history of bad ulcers (on the track, before I got him) and gets VERY hot when we do this. The last place was feeding him a metric ton of sweet feed (this was one of the reasons we moved) and it was making him NUTS.

I’ll look into the TC senior. I’ve heard good things about it and it can’t hurt to add some.

I know he’ll get fat and sleek again in a month or two (he always does), and it will get better the minute the grass comes in, it just gives me pain looking at him in the winter D: He also desperately needs a bath and looks raggedy because he hasn’t finished shedding out. So he just looks awful all the time and I feel sad looking at him lmao

[Jealoushe]

Beet pulp, and lots of it

[Chief2]

One cup of oil has 2000 calories in it, regardless of what kind it is. After that, price, availability and personal preference all factor in. I did the Cocosoya route. Too expensive. I switched to canola oil eight years ago, and the horses love it. So does my wallet.

My appaloosa gets 1 cup a day throughout the winter. The Percheron gets one cup in the morning, and another at night. Once the grass comes up, I discontinue the oil as their manure becomes too loose.

When friends’ horses come out of the winter too thin, and illness is not a factor, then it usually boils down to either too little hay being fed on a constant basis, or too little grain. And that usually happens when the food is being fed out by volume (flakes, quarts, scoops) instead of weighing it out. If there is a history of bad ulcers, I would be suspicious that the hay the horse has actually been receiving is too little for his or her actual needs. Hay acts like a sponge in the gut, helping to keep the acidic fluids from splashing up onto the upper part of the stomach that doesn’t have a mucus lining to prevent acid from eating into the stomach, causing ulcers. The lower portion of the stomach has such a lining, so by putting more hay in there to help absorb the acid it has a harder time washing up on the unprotected upper half of the stomach and causing ulcers. You may want to look into supplementing the hay as you are for a long period of time, even once your horse is onto grass, and definitely throughout each winter. Or purchasing additional hay and supplementing it that way, instead. Even during grass season, mine get a little am hay just to put the hay sponge down into their guts.

TC Senior (I feed this) is a beet pulp based feed, low in NSC and heavily coated in molasses. Some horses have difficulty with it because of the sweetener, so perhaps you could borrow a few cups to try it out on your horse before buying a bag. Good luck with your horse!

[JB]

If the feed, at 2qt, is a RB, then switch to a regular feed and feed more of it. 2 quarts is 8 cups which, for most RBs, is probably in the 2.5-3lb range - high for most horses, appropriate for a pretty big horse, like 1500lb.

More feed first before adding oil.

[dungrulla]

He has more hay than he can actually eat. Ridiculous amounts of hay. Like, half his stall is hay up to his knees. He eats about 2/3-3/4 of what he has but we don’t want him running out of forage. Then he also gets a hay net with EVEN MORE hay.

I will ask my BM about the feed

[beowulf]

actually, IMHO, if he is getting 2q on top of a very generous amount of hay cubes AND then more hay than he can eat, he sounds like he is getting a fair amount of food. horses don’t NEED grain, especially if they are not in work. if your hay is high quality and he is not in intense work, his nutritional needs may be adequately met and you may not need to go the route of concentrates. to know for certain, i advise having the barn test the hay so you can see what areas he may not be getting enough of.

however, if you are looking to boost his weight, i suggest adding rice-bran, or oats, or beet pulp. BEEP is a PITA but gets you good results, and is usually palatable for the horse. oats are high NSC (40% IIRC?) but are extremely palatable and digestible, and are great (IME) for horses with ulcers. from a nutritional/vitamin standpoint oats don’t offer very much besides fiber, but again, they are very palatable and in my experience do not make horses hot.

[findeight]

What kind of hay and how old is it? And how many pounds of alfalfa cubes is “tons”? Its possible the hay was poor quality even back last year when it was baled and it will lose nutrients as it gets older. So he could be standing in 30 pounds of the stuff and not getting sufficient nutritional value from it. Probably doesn’t tsste very good either.

I never used oil for weight gain, just used 1/4c of corn oil for coat condition during shed out tine on a few that came in poor. I went to alfalfa or alfalfa mix hay or soaked cubes if I could not get the hay and I feed by weight, not what it looks like. So have the better barns I have boarded at.

I know you have been doing alot of research as a new owner and have been a little all over the place on several issues you have posted about but you have to be careful. Information on the internet comes in three forms, important to know which type you are looking at and the source of that information before deciding its established fact and the best way to go. Or repeating it as fact.

Actual scientific research with a control group conducted by a neutral third party-very, very rare.

Actual personal experience of long time horse owners-more common

Parroting of things read on the internet as absolute fact by god knows who-most common.

Bonjour.

[JB]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8094768]
actually, IMHO, if he is getting 2q on top of a very generous amount of hay cubes AND then more hay than he can eat, he sounds like he is getting a fair amount of food. horses don’t NEED grain, especially if they are not in work. if your hay is high quality and he is not in intense work, his nutritional needs may be adequately met and you may not need to go the route of concentrates. to know for certain, i advise having the barn test the hay so you can see what areas he may not be getting enough of.

however, if you are looking to boost his weight, i suggest adding rice-bran, or oats, or beet pulp. BEEP is a PITA but gets you good results, and is usually palatable for the horse. oats are high NSC (40% IIRC?) but are extremely palatable and digestible, and are great (IME) for horses with ulcers. from a nutritional/vitamin standpoint oats don’t offer very much besides fiber, but again, they are very palatable and in my experience do not make horses hot.[/QUOTE]
Some horses really do need a fair amount of concentrates if they are eating all the hay they will eat, and that is the hay that is available. Concentrated feeds, ie “grain” fill nutritional as well as caloric needs, and it appears this horse is lacking in at least calories. 2 quarts is probably barely 3lb of a feed - that’s a lot of nutrition if it’s a RB, but not a lot of calories. It’s not enough nutrition (unless the hay is REALLY good) if it’s a regular feed, and while it’s more calories than if it’s a RB, it’s still not a lot. 5lb is usually the minimal amount to feed of regular fortified feeds (Lite feeds are lower).

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=JB;8094815]
Some horses really do need a fair amount of concentrates if they are eating all the hay they will eat, and that is the hay that is available. Concentrated feeds, ie “grain” fill nutritional as well as caloric needs, and it appears this horse is lacking in at least calories. 2 quarts is probably barely 3lb of a feed - that’s a lot of nutrition if it’s a RB, but not a lot of calories. It’s not enough nutrition (unless the hay is REALLY good) if it’s a regular feed, and while it’s more calories than if it’s a RB, it’s still not a lot. 5lb is usually the minimal amount to feed of regular fortified feeds (Lite feeds are lower).[/QUOTE]

completely agree – without testing the hay we can’t vouch for its quality – but i did want to pop in and say that not ALL horses need grain if they are getting quality hay and forage through good, plentiful hay & hay pellets/cubes.

so far OP has not been clear w/ how much horse is getting fed… if horse is only getting 2lb hay per day w. only 1lb hay cubes and 2lb grain that’s obviously NOT enough food… but if horse is getting 20-50lb hay (or as much as he can eat) and 10lb cubes and 2lb grain… different sroty

[JB]

Yep, very much agree - start with as much of the best quality hay you can get, realizing that not everyone has the means by which to get truly good quality hay

Add from there whatever concentrates do the job, and I would add either forage concentrates (ie alf pellets) or a fortified grain long before I just went straight to oil, barring of course something special like EPSM

[Flash44]

I prefer to keep things simple - good hay, TC Senior, TC 30% and flax does the trick for most situations. OP, alfalfa cubes and beet pulp are forages, not “grain” or “concentrate.” TC Senior is not “heavily coated in molasses,” it is very low in NSC as per this chart https://www.triplecrownfeed.com/articles/horse-food-carbohydrate-values-triple-crown-horsefood/, although it does contain molasses.

OP also says the horse “doesn’t look terrible (OK maybe he does).” You also say that the old boarding facility was feeding him “a metric ton of sweet feed.” That’s 2,000 pounds. Maybe if you can get correct information on what he is getting each day you can better solicit advice from the bb.

[dungrulla]

He was getting 10 lbs a day of molasses coated sweet feed. That’s more than he ate on the track. It turned him into a maniac.

He just looks a little ribby and gross and I want him to be fat and gorgeous he’s also covered in filth though so that may be a factor…hasn’t been warm enough for a bath and it’s hard to scrape all the crud off otherwise He lives outside and seems to enjoy rolling in mud puddles and/or his own pee. I rub what I can off with a towel and a little water but it’s still nasty >.>

As I said I’m not in charge of feeding, he’s on full board. I am just looking to maybe get a little more involved in what he eats. Right now he is getting 2 quarts of ration balancer probably 10 lbs alfalfa cubes and as much hay as he can consume. Also probably a few ounces of whatever treat I have handy but idk if that makes much of a dent.

He always looks a little gross over the winter. I’d just like to get back to the pretty times NOW please, lol.

[findeight]

Does he have an individual paddock or live in a group? If he is getting and finishing 10 pounds of alfalfa cubes daily, he may not be very hungry for poorish hay and since he hs not in work, he may not need as much as he’s standing around on.

Are you there for every feeding and positive he is getting the 2qts of balancer and 10 pounds of cubes? And is that split into 3 feedings? Two? Doesnt really add up, edpecially since he’s not in regular work.

[Frizzle]

What a lot of us are trying to emphasize, though, is that your horse can not be getting the required amount of vitamins, minerals, etc. if he is eating 2 quarts of fortified grain a day. That’s a different story if it’s a ration balancer, but this really is information that you need to know.

Personally, I took my horse off of grain and now feed him beet pulp, alfalfa pellets, and a vit/min/amino acid supplement (in addition to his other supplements). I also feed Standlee hay, which is tested, and know approximately how many pounds my horse eats per day. But I still had some nutritional gaps to fill, which I only found out by using FeedXL.

Even if you are technically “not in charge” of what your horse eats, it really is your responsibility to ensure that his nutritional needs are being met. And that is not intended to be snarky. I know a LOT of people leave their horses’s diet up to the BO/BM, but they’re not always knowledgable enough for the job. Sadly, many vets aren’t either. Since your horse is having issues, you need to take a more active role in what he’s eating. The suggestion of switching to at least the minimum amount of a fortified low-NSC feed like TC Senior is a good one, as is my suggestion of FeedXL. :yes: Best of luck!

[JB]

@dungrulla;8095275

He was getting 10 lbs a day of molasses coated sweet feed. That’s more than he ate on the track. It turned him into a maniac.

That would turn most horses into a maniac. The only horses who seem to be able to handle that sort of energy are those working that hard.

He just looks a little ribby and gross and I want him to be fat and gorgeous

Well, you don’t really want fat A good quality feed is going to do SO much better than any sweet feed out there.

As I said I’m not in charge of feeding, he’s on full board. I am just looking to maybe get a little more involved in what he eats. Right now he is getting 2 quarts of ration balancer probably 10 lbs alfalfa cubes and as much hay as he can consume. Also probably a few ounces of whatever treat I have handy but idk if that makes much of a dent.

He always looks a little gross over the winter. I’d just like to get back to the pretty times NOW please, lol.

As his owner, you have every right, and responsibility, to know what he’s feeding and make a change if it’s something you don’t like or isn’t working. You may not be the one actually feeding, but that’s just the messenger. You need to be responsible for the message

We really need to know if he’s getting an actual ration balancer. 2 quarts is just a wrong amount for much of anything - too much for a ration balancer (unless it’s being used in higher amounts to increase calories, which is not the right thing to do), and too little for a regular feed.

Are you positive it’s 10lb of alf cubes? As in, he eats 1 bag every 4 days?

When was he last dewormed, and with what?