Ok guys, How do I look?? (Hunting turnout and such..)

[Vkent]

Foxhunting like the rest of the world has become more casual. In fact many of the hunts in England are far more casual than some of the hunts in the US.

My husband blames it on the 1980s and the leisure suit.

Our hunt is 80 years old and dress is quite formal for the midwest. What irks me the most in the field is horses with unpulled manes and not clipped. It just plain looks sloppy.

I like that in eventing we can choose wild colors. I also like it in eventing that we have a specific dress code. I feel special when I get to hunt on Wednesdays and can choose what tweed to wear that day. I’ve even made some plaid stock ties for informal hunt days so that I can really be on the edge.

I was suprised by the slide show and some of the attire in your hunt. There are clearly many who abide by the traditional turn out and a few that don’t. Then there is the jumping style. But of course, post and rail fences like that are really hard to get a nice jump over.

It’s hard, the master’s don’t want to drive people off by being over critical of turnout and horse behaviour. But if you let it all go, then the whole hunt will deteriorate.

Before my first time out I spent the entire night (only had one nights notice!) reading everything online I could find about the rules and turn out. There are still things I have to work on (ex: I don’t have dress boots yet, I only have black gloves) but I think people realize I am in college, on a budget, and that I am trying my hardest with what I have. I really like that people are understanding, but I am constantly trying to improve and over here reading what you veterans have to say!

I also tell people to PLEASE tell me when I do something wrong. Sure it might embarrass me for a moment, but it will be less embarrassing than realizing a month, or YEAR later that I’ve been doing something wrong or made someone mad!

So please all you veterans, tell us newbies when we mess up, we are trying!

[SidesaddleRider]

@Xctrygirl;2998211

In a “proper” hunt these elements should be changed:

1.) Replace the Charles Owen helmet with a Velvet. (I have 2, easy to do)
2.) Lose the Bit converters
3.) Shift back to a fitted pad
4.) Wear a plain black Melton or remove colors from existing

• Question… I have a Pikeur Diana frock coat, it has been my thought that it’s not advisable to wear b/c it has silver buttons. Am I correct on this? (Of course colors on a borrowed coat is admittedly a far worse offense)
  5.) Lose the boots…on the horse
  6.) Work to give a better release and tuck my butt down and shoulders back.

Now here’s the next question, and its serious…

Once I change all of these things, those in this hunt are all still doing things their way. Square pads, “Skunk helmets” (Loved that btw) and other things that are not deemed “proper.” So the question is, Who is not proper? Me the groom that conformed to the standards mentioned here, or the members that seem to be re-writing what is “proper” for their hunt???

All right, I’m an admitted turn-out nazi, but… I agree 100% with #1-6… if you are trying to follow traditional correct hunting attire. If the hunt you are out with has written/understood attire guidelines that say otherwise, then you technically are correct within that hunt, but not at a more formal, “attire-correct” hunt. I would also get brown or chamois-colored gloves (as black is NEVER proper in the hunt field), and get rid of the eventing-style breastplate being used and suggest a proper flat leather one without shiny buckles everywhere. But, if it’s the employers horse, they (and you) are probably not going to rush out and purchase new tack.

Yes, FAR better to wear your Pikeur coat with silver buttons than colors you have not earned. Also, check eBay for a hunt coat, they oftentimes come up there for a reasonable price.

And, as to your question about everyone else, I think it comes down to the old, annoying, adage: “If everyone else was jumping off a bridge, would you do it to?” Just because people are doing it, doesn’t make it “correct.” Grooms are usually understood to have conformed to the decree of their employers. If people are aware that you are a groom, then it would not be you looked down upon, but rather your employer, for not bothering to outfit their groom in proper attire. But if the attire you are wearing is the standard of your hunt, then you (and he/she) did nothing knowingly wrong.

Proper foxhunting attire is a wonderful tradition, and it seems a shame to lose it as so many hunts seem to be moving in that direction. I look at pictures of hunts from the 1930s and 40s, and compare them to today’s pictures, and so often think, “What Happened?!?” The elegance is so hardly there anymore. Admittedly, attire is not the goal of foxhunting, but…

Just IMHO.

[Ashby]

@Vkent;2998327

Before my first time out I spent the entire night (only had one nights notice!) reading everything online I could find about the rules and turn out. There are still things I have to work on (ex: I don’t have dress boots yet, I only have black gloves)

Excuse me? What did you do with the nice brown gloves your sainted mother gave you, young lady??

[JSwan]

The MFHA has a pdf file on their website which tells every single foxhunter exactly what to wear. It’s actually pretty simple stuff.

It makes sense that in RAR’s hunt, exceptions need to be made for the terrain and climate. Adhering to “traditional” doesn’t make sense if it compromises the safety or comfort of horse, rider or hound. If I was going to hunt with RAR’s hunt, I’d just call the Secretary and ask what’s appropriate.

I don’t mean to sound like a turnout nazi - I really don’t put a heck of a lot of thought into this stuff. It’s certainly not snobbery.

I was out hunting Saturday and we had the pleasure of visiting with the landowner at the tailgate, and members of his family to see us off and welcome us back. Nice people. I thanked him for letting us hunt on his farm and he said one of the things he loves to see is how lovely we all look - how poetic and old fashioned. It’s a pleasure to watch us and the hounds.

It’s not the first time I’ve heard that from a landowner. While attire isn’t the focus of foxhunting - we are out on someone else’s land, and I’d no sooner look slovenly for hunting than I would showing up on their doorstep for dinner.

[KateDB]

Pox on you…

who forgets who first took you hunting many years ago at EHH!

btw-you do KNOW all the right answers to these questions! :eek:

AND if you want to be thoroughly technical, you’d not use the Pikeur coat, as it is a frock and absolutely technically you must wear patent tops with frock (as a lady). However, I’d prefer seeing you wear that to wear your boss’s coat. But, I agree, check out ebay and get yourself a heavy melton so you’ll be both warm and correct.

[LookinSouth]

@Beverley;2998280

And don’t know a hunt anywhere that doesn’t allow western saddles or whatever English equipment/attire one has, for trying out the sport.

Holy crap! Hunts that allow Western saddles??:eek:
Wow you mean my husband would have NO excuse to not try hunting? I don’t know of any hunts up here in NE that allow western saddles. That said, it doesn’t bother me because I really enjoy the formality and tradition of foxhunting. It wouldn’t be the same if people showed up in western saddles and more trail riding type attire.

That said, my hunt has been very welcoming and forgiving of minor things like black gloves and “ratcatcher” attire in formal season for us newbies. I don’t have a melton so I just ride in my navy hunt coat.

[SidesaddleRider]

@Beverley;2998280

And [I] don’t know a hunt anywhere that doesn’t allow western saddles or whatever English equipment/attire one has, for trying out the sport. It only makes sense to be sure you really want to get into hunting before acquiring the attire and equipment!

Then come out east… I HIGHLY doubt any of the hunts right around me would condone western tack, even if just “trying it out”. Such as that should be done on the summer hunt trail rides, when anything goes, NOT during hunt season itself.

[SEPowell]

I love our hunt; we have great hounds and huge country. The most important thing about our hunt? The hounds and the people who finish the hunt with them.

[lizathenag]

I would hope any hunt anywhere would welcome the landowner in a western saddle.

[SEPowell]

@Xctrygirl;2998211

Overall I have been shocked over and over at the ‘casualness’ and lack of ‘field order’ that I have seen. But then a field of over 150 people, and no hilltoppers leader just blew me away.

I shouldn’t be surprised to hear that these folks are not showing properness, but I guess I am. This is a widely touted hunt that I had expected a much different experience from.

OK anyway, thank you all for your honest answers. I did hear you and I do appreciate your input.

~Emily

Hey Emily, I hunted with this hunt about 20 years ago and actually had a lot of fun once I realized the fields were so big I just wasn’t going to get near the hounds. I found it refreshing that many people with this hunt were not too worried about turnout, but really into riding. I remember watching Paddy Neilson and friends trot down to a 4 rail fence and jump it together as the hunt was leaving the kennels one Thanksgiving and I remember following Bruce Davidson as he led the huge field over all kinds of jumps to keep us busy while the hounds were taken from covert to covert. I also remember having a great hunt on a day when not too many people were out and I was able to ride close enough to the front to watch the hounds work. So if life there hasn’t changed too much just go for it and have a great time riding. If you’ve been exercising race horses you undoubtedly have the balance you need to adjust to the different fences and terrain. And if you go enough during the week you’re bound to run into one of those magical days when you’ll be right there as the hounds work a line…

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=lizathenag;2999728]
I would hope any hunt anywhere would welcome the landowner in a western saddle.[/QUOTE]

our landowners can hunt naked on a llama if they want to (though we would prefer they didn’t–at least the naked part-not enough port for that–hahaha)

[Tantivy1]

[QUOTE=SEPowell;2999758]
Hey Emily, I hunted with this hunt about 20 years ago and…found it refreshing that many people with this hunt were not too worried about turnout, but really into riding.[/QUOTE]

Interesting way of looking at things, and a perfect example of how what is considered not quite proper to one person is perfectly acceptable to another.

I am reminded of a comment I read recently made by a foxhunter visiting a neighboring state’s hunt. They remarked on how you could really spot the foxhunter’s from Virginia as they had consistently proper and spiffy turnout, an observation to which I must confess a certain degree of pride

Guesting with a hunt just last month, a group of visitors from Emily’s hunt were also capping. They were easily identifiable in the Virginia hunt field by their own particular turnout style as well as their mounts, both of which are evidenced by the many slides linked to Emily’s pictures.

Thinking along this line…hunts have their own individual flavor, and Cheshire is well-known for hard riding over really challenging country. I noted that morning that their rider’s, while not turned out to the same degree as that Virginia hunt’s members, they rode up front, they stayed to the bitter end (and it was a heck of a good hunt with a long run late in the day), they had fit, athletic looking horses, and boy were we all having one fine, good time!

There was a flavor of “event rider” and/or “race rider” running through their turnout. Not surprising, considering the strong influence of eventing and race riding present in their home hunt.

I like to worry about turnout. I love learning what is proper and the history as to the why and wherefore’s of proper turnout. I respect and admire those who share that passion (our own SidesaddleRider comes foremost to mind) but it is understandable that not everyone shares it to the same exacting degree.

But I do not appreciate it when those who strive for proper turnout are ridiculed or put down for the extra work they put into making the breathtakingly gorgeous sights such as you see for example, at Orange County Hunt, where there is a definite emphasis on proper turnout and the members do not ride any worse for being well turned out!

Point being, some foxhunters can have their cake and eat it too; bless them for doing so, those who are beautifully turned out and gutsy riders.

Any of us hunting fools can have both ways; with some effort, it is there for the taking.

As to Emily’s post, bravo to you for posting the photo and accepting the criticism with grace. (We ought to get more of us doing just that, maybe a weekly photo critique here of some poor soul?!)

And a warm thanks to everyone who took the time to point out the ways she could improve - man, you guys were good! Every point made was in my mind exactly on the money. (With a few minor changes, Emily could SHINE on Saturday mornings).

Your comments just go to show, there are more than a few foxhunters eating their superdelicious cake!

[Tantivy1]

Looking through the slides, Rider #159 is a star.

He is worth taking a long look at.

Beautifully turned out, all I can comment on the the extra-large bit rings and the sheepskin breastplate cover BUT both are perfectly acceptable if needed.

Looking at his turnout, he is excruitingly proper in all other regards, so one can only assume the choice of sheepskin and bit are definitely thought out as being necessary.

What a deep and strong seat and leg and the softness, the casual elegance that he rides with is lovely. While he has pivoted a wee bit off his knee, thrusting his lower leg forward as a result, and his foot is shot a hair too far thru the stirrup, all of it only increases his strong base of support and overall he is in near-perfect balance over a stiff piece of timber.

That rare breed, a foxhunting rider exhibiting the finest fundamentals of old hunter ring riding cross country, and hey, they WORK!

And I love the way he is holding his whip! Straight up and the thong wrapped around the shaft, have never seen it done that way.

Professional, maybe? by the sight of the ribbon down on the back of his helmet.

His bay is skipping over that big fence, nice reasonably tight thus safe front end, he’s paying attention, using his neck and back, jumping off his hocks…making it look easy!

Nice, nice pair. A blue ribbon foxhunter.

Emily, who are they?!

PS My pardon for the comments on him but I just had to point out that loveliest of rides!

[SteeleRdr]

[QUOTE=KateDB;2998825]

AND if you want to be thoroughly technical, you’d not use the Pikeur coat, as it is a frock and absolutely technically you must wear patent tops with frock (as a lady). [/QUOTE]

I respectfully disagree. Correct me if I’m wrong SSR, but patent tops are only worn by a lady with COLORS and a frock. You can wear a plain frock without colors and without patent tops.

[Risk-Averse_Rider]

@Jaegermonster;2999822

our landowners can hunt naked on a llama if they want to (though we would prefer they didn’t–at least the naked part-not enough port for that–hahaha)

But would they be asked to ride with the hilltoppers so as not to ruin the photos?

[SLW]

[QUOTE=SteeleRdr;2999962]
I respectfully disagree. Correct me if I’m wrong SSR, but patent tops are only worn by a lady with COLORS and a frock. You can wear a plain frock without colors and without patent tops.[/QUOTE]

I can only wonder if it varies from hunt to hunt. A women w/out colors may wear a frock coat in my hunt. They do make mention it should be a three button frock but no one has refused to drink from my flask as I sit astride my mare wearing my 4 button frock. (I didn’t know this and had already purchased the 4 button frock from Foxhuntingshop.com)

Yes, tradition dictates clothing and turnout for which we are all grateful. However, we must allow some “time” for newbies to collect the correct items or we risk not expanding membership, interest and looking down our noses at them in the meantime. Ditto the western saddle. We have landowners who only ride western and they join us once, maybe twice a year. A hardhat and boots w/ heels is all that is required of them, along w/ a reasonbly fit horse that has excellent group manners.

Inclusive should be the goal when a guest or new person shows a strong interest in taking up foxhunting. My two cents.

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=Risk-Averse Rider;2999972]
But would they be asked to ride with the hilltoppers so as not to ruin the photos?[/QUOTE]

Most definitely LOL

[SEPowell]

@Tantivy1;2999883

But I do not appreciate it when those who strive for proper turnout are riduculed or put down for the extra work they put into making the breathtakingly gorgeous sights such as you see for example, at Orange County Hunt, where there is a definite emphasis on proper turnout and the members do not ride any worse for being well turned out!

Point being, some foxhunters can have their cake and eat it too; bless them for doing so, those who are beautifully turned out and gutsy riders.

Yikes! My comments to Emily are in no way meant to put down those who highly value proper turn out! And actually I don’t think you took them that way. I’ll never be a turn out meister, and because of that my focus immediately shifts to other things, in this case the type of fun this hunt has to offer.

[SidesaddleRider]

@SteeleRdr;2999962

I respectfully disagree. Correct me if I’m wrong SSR, but patent tops are only worn by a lady with COLORS and a frock. You can wear a plain frock without colors and without patent tops.

Correct.

And only 3 buttons on the frock or hunt coat, as a member of the field.

[Tantivy1]

[QUOTE=SEPowell;3000231]
Yikes! My comments to Emily are in no way meant to put down those who highly value proper turn out! And actually I don’t think you took them that way. [/QUOTE]

Nay and yea, you are correct and your comments ma’am were not taken as being negative to those who value turn out.

By the way, the landowner and a friend hunted with us this past Saturday, both in Western saddles and street clothes, riding shaky tails. They stayed out most of the morning and their horses, hunting with hounds for the first time, were beautifully mannered.

Sorta wished that the big black and white one did a w,t,c!