Pippin will be 14 on January 1.
Had him to the vet for a follow up on a massive abscess that had to be drained.
Vet wants to do a teeth cleaning once he’s fully recovered from the abscess. I agree that his teeth REALLY need a cleaning, but I have serious concerns about general anesthesia on a dog that old, especially a pug.
Vet feels he’s healthy enough and the cleaning would be better for his health than letting it go.
Any opinions?
If you do pre-anesthetic bloodwork and a chest x-ray to ensure there is no cardiac enlargement or hidden lung issues, maybe an EKG to ensure no arrhythmias, then that’s about as good of an assurance as you can do beforehand. Talk to your vet about specific health issues that exist for your dog that would increase his anesthetic risk. Talk to your vet and ask questions about protocols for an older dog like yours and what they’d do to minimize the anesthetic risk.
Basically, all anesthesia isn’t without risk, but age isn’t a disease…it just increases the probability of “something” that may increase the risk.
Ditto what Pancakes said.
Better to do it sooner and stay ahead of any potential problems, especially in a breed notorious for dental concerns. A thorough cleaning will prevent any future abscesses/ dental infections that would lead to longer under anesthesia to fix later.
Just to clarify, the abscess was from a puncture wound. He and Xander got into a fight and he got bitten. But thanks for the advice and clarification. I’m much more at ease now.
I’d also discuss with the vet about inducing with propofol instead of ketamine. I find mine do much better with that protocol, and always request it now.
Best of luck!
My older dog had surgery a few months back and the vet told me he took a “very, very long time to come out of anesthesia and begin breathing on his own again”. He did have blood work done, and a chest xray before surgery. I am not a vet, but that was enough to scare me away from putting him under anesthesia again unless it is something immediately life threatening.
I’m using a tooth cleaning enzyme gel to soften any plague and giving him bones to help clean his teeth. While his teeth are good now, in the future I will not be putting him under anesthesia again just for a teeth cleaning.
[QUOTE=Simkie;7905019]
I’d also discuss with the vet about inducing with propofol instead of ketamine. I find mine do much better with that protocol, and always request it now.
Best of luck![/QUOTE]
My small animal vet uses propofol for all inductions of senior or otherwise compromised dogs and says he believes it is more appropriate and safer. There is a small charge for it. He has done surgery on my older dogs and they have always done well, even my big guy who has some significant organ failure issues.
Can you do the dental yourself ? Its really not too difficult to do, but of course WAY easier to do first time when they are puppies.
Do you think the dog is good or resistant about it? Will the vet try w/o drugs ?
You maybe able to find a groomer willing to do dental w/o drugs ?
My vet uses propofol as well, but for all ages. My cocker, at 14, had gall bladder surgery, came through fine (it was 50/50, but because of gall bladder disease), just had her teeth cleaned and 5 teeth removed at 16. She came through just fine…was completely with it when I picked her up at 5 pm. (after the cleaning at 10 am) and wanted dinner.
[QUOTE=PonyTales;7905170]
Can you do the dental yourself ? Its really not too difficult to do, but of course WAY easier to do first time when they are puppies.
Do you think the dog is good or resistant about it? Will the vet try w/o drugs ?
You maybe able to find a groomer willing to do dental w/o drugs ?[/QUOTE]
Having a groomer scrape tartar off a tooth is in no way, shape, or form a dental cleaning. The superficial stuff isn’t the problem. It’s everything below the gum line that causes tooth decay, infection, and abscesses. You absolutely cannot address issues below the gum line in an awake dog, no matter how well behaved the dog is. You need to probe pockets, take dental x-rays, and clean deep in there to really consider any dental worth its value. For a dog with “bad teeth” I would consider anything less a disservice to the pet. And you should always have a trained professional do it, not yourself or your groomer.
[QUOTE=Pancakes;7905349]
Having a groomer scrape tartar off a tooth is in no way, shape, or form a dental cleaning. The superficial stuff isn’t the problem. It’s everything below the gum line that causes tooth decay, infection, and abscesses. You absolutely cannot address issues below the gum line in an awake dog, no matter how well behaved the dog is. You need to probe pockets, take dental x-rays, and clean deep in there to really consider any dental worth its value. For a dog with “bad teeth” I would consider anything less a disservice to the pet. And you should always have a trained professional do it, not yourself or your groomer.[/QUOTE]
EXACTLY! A veterinary dentist showed me pictures of a lab who had gone to a groomer for a ‘dental’ for years and had absolutely beautiful pearly whites. Then came the dental radiographs…ugh. Dog had to have every last tooth removed. When you pulled the gums black the teeth were black with decay. The films showed numerous abscesses, incredible bone loss (to the point of almost having a fractures lower jaw), and was pretty much the worst dental radiograph I had ever seen. Poor dog…
There are dental cleaning services available that don’t use anesthesia. I’ve owned dogs forever and will never do a tooth cleaning under anesthetic. Never had a single tooth-related problem, either. Do they knock out people for tooth cleanings? Of course not.
People and dogs are not the same – however…
Our 16 year old daschie had a terrible mouth and over the years had had most of his teeth removed at one time or another. Finally, the vet said his mouth was putrid so I said I was worried about the anaesthesia at his age – he said the numbers were good and since I trust him and think the world of him, he put him under and did the final extractions…little man had a whole new lease of life without swallowing all that bacteria - lived into a healthy, happy, active old age.
Take your vet’s advice.
[QUOTE=wendy;7905877]
There are dental cleaning services available that don’t use anesthesia. I’ve owned dogs forever and will never do a tooth cleaning under anesthetic. Never had a single tooth-related problem, either. Do they knock out people for tooth cleanings? Of course not.[/QUOTE]
Uh, yes they do. Sedation dentistry?
Seriously though, you’re really comparing people to dogs in this?
It can hurt when you’re picking around under the gumline or scaling. People know this. They put up with it. Dogs don’t understand.
Just because you haven’t had a problem with your pets doesn’t mean everyone else is going to have the same experience.
I know for sure there will be at least one extraction, so anesthesia is going to be required period.
But thanks again for the information and reassurance.
My farrier had dental work done on his elderly frenchie and his only regret is that he didn’t do it sooner. He was so much healthier after the surgery than before, and had no trouble with the anesthesia. His original vet did not recommend having the dental work done even thought it had been an issue for several years, and when he moved and had to see a new vet for an emergency they thought it would be safe and would improve his overall health dramatically (which it did).
So, of course there is a risk factor, but the overall improvement in health and quality of life are probably worth taking that risk.
The improvement really is dramatic. Our little feller had a putrid mouth when we got him and it just got worse. Vet quoted for extractions but I don’t think he ended up actually removing any, but after he cleaned and put this new antibiotic long-acting gel in the gum pockets the dog was visibly healthier and happier. Friggin pricy procedure, but there ya go. We estimate him at 7-ish so not a pup, but we had bloodwork done before and all went well.
My girl is nearly 15 (lab mix) and just put her anesthesia for some eyelid masses to be removed. She did great. Age is not a disease. Do your homework before (pre anesthetic blood work …full chesmistires and cbc and thorough auscultation.) Old dogs usually do very well under anesthesia they are just slower to get back on their feet that the youngens.
OP’s dog sounds like he’d probably be okay. A 14yo dog who is a little slower and fatter and greyer but otherwise seems much like he was at 10? Do all the safety stuff and I think it’s a reasonable call, especially if he needs an extraction. It won’t get more doable. If he was a 14yo dog with significant leg weakness, major recent health issues, shows signs of even mild spells of vagueness, etc.? I’d be far more hesitant in that case because there are dangers to anesthesia and they’re more likely in a fragile older dog.
[QUOTE=Simkie;7905019]
I’d also discuss with the vet about inducing with propofol instead of ketamine. I find mine do much better with that protocol, and always request it now.
Best of luck![/QUOTE]
When my Rosemary (kitty) was 17, she had a fibrosarcoma on her hip. My BF and I brought her in for surgery and both being anesthesia providers, we wanted to know my vets plan. I like my vet as he is a kitty vet and has old kitties himself and a decent sized practice. His plan was to do a mask induction as he felt it was a gentler anesthetic (I think they use Sevo). She did great and the sarcoma didn’t come back.
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