Old Dog with Degenerative Disk Disease

[Lord_Helpus]

My wonderful dog, Maggie is 14 and has lost partial use of her hind legs. And the loss of use seems to be getting worse.

X-rays show 3 vertebrae which are touching because there are no discs to cushion them. I am thinking that this must be interfering with nerve signals from getting to her hind end. She also makes no move to straighten her hind foot when it is placed in a “knuckle under” position.

If Maggie does become completely paralyzed, I will probably let her go. She is too old to learn to use a cart and I live in the country without smooth sidewalks.

I have also declined a contrast MRI because of her age. The vet recommended PT using lazer and acupuncture. We did this for several weeks, but since I did not see an improvement, I stopped those sessions.

I have asked if it might be Cushings, and it might be. But since she was on Prednisone we have to wait for several weeks before we can do the Cushings blood test(s).

She is on maximum doses of pain meds now… We stopped the Gabapentin since it made her so sleepy/woozy that she had even more trouble walking; so she is now on a double dose of Tramadol morning and night.

I am, of course, devastated, and I am not sure what the future will bring. Has anyone else had an old dog in this position and how did it progress?

[khall]

Yes, I had to euthanize my rescue GSDx two weeks before I got married because of the same issue. He ultimately became totally paralyzed and we let him go. So sorry you are facing this, it is hard to let our pets go.

[BetterOffRed]

I know how you feel Lord Helpus…and I am so sorry for your and your dog.

When you get the first diagnosis, it is crushing. My corgi started walking strangely, dragging 1 foot this time last year. I had her on meds, did xrays and they said it was probably arthritis. By July, she couldn’t walk and it was diagnosed as Deg. Disc Disease. She has been on Gabapenton and Deramax 2x a day since then. She doesn’t like her cart, so she just scoots around. I did do the DNA test and she came up posititve for DM. So I declined the MRI and surgery. She is 11, she is a headstrong corgi and I know she would not handle the recooperation…and I just couldn’t afford the mid 4 figures $. I have gotten her a cart, but she hates it.

[invinoveritas]

You can buy those great carts, either through your vet or on the internet, that allow a dog to walk with wheels. I’ve known people all my life who did this for their disabled dogs. Dachshunds sometimes have this problem, as well as dog who have been hit by cars.

Dogs adapt well to their “wheelchairs.”

This is presuming that there is no pain associated with the paralysis. Sometimes the vet will operate to relieve pain. And sometimes surgery can correct the problem. You should take your dog to a vet school. A lot of local vets are not trained to handle spinal problems.

[Lord_Helpus]

The vet called with the radiologist’s report from the x-rays and ultrasound. Seems like Maggie has the trifecta of a bad deal.

She has narrowing, [introverted?] discs in her Thorasic/Lumbar junction
She has severe remodeling (dysplasia) at the Lumbar/Sacral junction (vets also called it: spondelosis and interventral narrowing. (I was taking notes so fast that I cannot read my writing and did not know how to spell most this stuff anyway.)

But the worst is that she has “severe bilateral hip dysplasia”

So she has 2 places in her spine which are pinching her spinal column and hip dysplasia so her hip joints are screwed.

Strangely enough, this came on very quickly – in 3 days she went from fine to very painful.

We are adding in that other pain med that begins with an “A” tomorrow and, since it is sort of irrelevant if she might also have Cushings, the current goal is to alleviate her pain from all of the above ---- which means we might add the steroids back in and forget about the Cushings test for now.

Has anyone heard of Toe Grips? Vet loves them and is ordering some in Maggie’s size. They are little rubber tubes which fit over each toenail and give a dog traction again. The reviews are great and I am excited to get them on her. If anyone has used them, I would love to hear more detail.

Tonight Maggie and I took a nice golf cart tour and fed horses together. She loved it and it was like the old days. Except back then she would jump into the cart and then up on the seat in one continuous motion. Today I had to carefully pick her up, set her down, and arrange her back legs so they were not caught under her.

I am 66 now. I have 2 six year old Yorkies. I am getting to the point where my next set (I always have 2 - 3) of dogs will outlive me. Perhaps that is a good thing. This is so painful.

[Horsegal984]

Lord Helpus, I am so sorry. It’s a hard thing to watch them go down that path. Since it was such a sudden onset I am betting that the hip dysplasia is an incidental finding, meaning it’s not causing her symptoms. It sounds much more like a disc slipped in her spine, as that causes sudden onset like you’re describing.

Toe grips are pretty awesome, my acupuncture vet loves them. (Come to think of it, aren’t you in NC? Charlotte area perchance? Wonder if it’s the same vet) They seem to make a big difference for a lot of our weak/neurologic dogs.

[oldbutnotdead]

Hugs.

[jetsmom]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8547601]
The vet called with the radiologist’s report from the x-rays and ultrasound. Seems like Maggie has the trifecta of a bad deal.

She has narrowing, [introverted?] discs in her Thorasic/Lumbar junction
She has severe remodeling (dysplasia) at the Lumbar/Sacral junction (vets also called it: spondelosis and interventral narrowing. (I was taking notes so fast that I cannot read my writing and did not know how to spell most this stuff anyway.)

But the worst is that she has “severe bilateral hip dysplasia”

So she has 2 places in her spine which are pinching her spinal column and hip dysplasia so her hip joints are screwed.

Strangely enough, this came on very quickly – in 3 days she went from fine to very painful.

We are adding in that other pain med that begins with an “A” tomorrow and, since it is sort of irrelevant if she might also have Cushings, the current goal is to alleviate her pain from all of the above ---- which means we might add the steroids back in and forget about the Cushings test for now.

Has anyone heard of Toe Grips? Vet loves them and is ordering some in Maggie’s size. They are little rubber tubes which fit over each toenail and give a dog traction again. The reviews are great and I am excited to get them on her. If anyone has used them, I would love to hear more detail.

Tonight Maggie and I took a nice golf cart tour and fed horses together. She loved it and it was like the old days. Except back then she would jump into the cart and then up on the seat in one continuous motion. Today I had to carefully pick her up, set her down, and arrange her back legs so they were not caught under her.

I am 66 now. I have 2 six year old Yorkies. I am getting to the point where my next set (I always have 2 - 3) of dogs will outlive me. Perhaps that is a good thing. This is so painful.[/QUOTE]
Also look at power paws.

[snowrider]

I’m so sorry, a good friend lost a young GSD to this a few years ago, it was not fixable surgically even in their younger dog.

One thing that really did help their dog for a year or so was oral HA supplements, just to give the joints some more lubrication. I believe they bought human ones from Amazon but I’m sure horse ones would work too. It’s a powder and goes in their food and can come with added MSM, it wasn’t Lubrysin. I’ve been using it on my hard running working dog and it seems to make her move more freely.

[Beckham03]

I’m so sorry.

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8547636]
Lord Helpus, I am so sorry. It’s a hard thing to watch them go down that path. Since it was such a sudden onset I am betting that the hip dysplasia is an incidental finding, meaning it’s not causing her symptoms. It sounds much more like a disc slipped in her spine, as that causes sudden onset like you’re describing.

Toe grips are pretty awesome, my acupuncture vet loves them. (Come to think of it, aren’t you in NC? Charlotte area perchance? Wonder if it’s the same vet) They seem to make a big difference for a lot of our weak/neurologic dogs.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I am in NC, but in Southern Pines. My vet/PT is Vanguard Vet and they are great there. There are 2 sides to the practice – general and K-9 (for military dogs in training). Hence the large PT division.

Horsegal, do you find that the acupuncture really helps? Maggie did not get better, but, perhaps, because she did not get worse, meant that it was helping.

[ASB_Stars]

I have my older ESS on Pentosan- easy to give sub-q, and it is helping her with her age related arthritic issues, as well as her spinal issues. I saw a big improvement in her, and perhaps it is worth a try for your furchild.

[Horsegal984]

I have found acupuncture to be wonderful at relieving pain, but I am not sure how much it helps outside of that. The same thing with the laser therapy. It can be wonderful for most cases, but in others it seems to make little to no difference.

Do they have an underwater treadmill? That could help build muscle without having high impact further stressing joints.

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8548333]
I have found acupuncture to be wonderful at relieving pain, but I am not sure how much it helps outside of that. The same thing with the laser therapy. It can be wonderful for most cases, but in others it seems to make little to no difference.

Do they have an underwater treadmill? That could help build muscle without having high impact further stressing joints.[/QUOTE]

The underwater treadmill is a great idea! And yes the vet does have one. I am wondering, though, if I could replicate the idea in my own tub? I know that dogs will start to doggie paddle when held above water, so they do not need to be swimming in deep water to start ‘swimming’.

What if I fill the tub about 2" deeper than she can easily stand in and, with my hand under her stomach for support, get her doggie paddling? I am sure that, at first one minute would be plenty, but we could lengthen the time as her muscles got stronger.

Yesterday, after her first dose of the new painkiller (A______) my Maggie wagged her tail and looked at the world around her!!! She had been in such pain for a week that she had withdrawn into herself. I was thinking that Monday might be “the day”, but now I am looking forward to a future.

How long can she stay on so many drugs? I will ask the vet on Monday, but I am wondering now if we can keep her out of pain with this combination, then I want to keep it going.

[Marla_100]

It does sound like a recent tweak of a weak (spinal) area.

My son’s older husky just had this happen a week ago. In researching things online for her I came across two things on dog forums that also get good reviews for spinal problems. I’ve ordered both so haven’t tried them yet but
on amazon there’s loads of great reviews.

T-Relief (anti-inflammatory and pain relief)
Vetri Disc made by VetriScience

for my old GSD w/ hip problems, I give 1 TB of Lubrysin (HA) orally for relief
and periodic Adequan shots from vet. She’s still running around but sometimes bunny hops in the rear.

LH if you can get me the name of that pain med. that starts w/ “A”, I may need to mention it to my son for his dog.

[glfprncs]

With regards to the Cushing’s thoughts…other than muscle weakness, is Maggie showing any other clinical Cushing’s signs (generally excessive thirst/drinking, excessive urination, non-stop demand for food, thinning coat/skin issues)? You didn’t mention anything other than the hind-end weakness, so I was wondering why you think Cushing’s.

If maggie does, indeed, have Cushing’s disease, and her body is mass producing cortisol, it might be a good idea to not treat. Cortisol is nature’s way of masking pain. If she has extremely high cortisol production, and you manage it, her pain load very well may increase even more.

Just my 2 cents…

[Lord_Helpus]

glfprncs, Yes, Maggie has excessive thirst (to put it mildly – she goes through a bowl of water every day – and needs to drink every hour). She has also lost almost all the hair on her back. She also has a pot belly that was not there 6 months ago.

From what the vet can tell, her adrenal glands are operating normally, ( as viewed on unltrasound and from results of a CBC) but, since she has been on Prednisone it is impossible to really tell. Evidently she has to be off Pred. for 6 weeks before they can do a test for Cushings.

Now that we have a definitive diagnosis of slipped disks, degenerative disc disease and severe bilateral hip dysplasia, I am reluctant to keep her off Pred. for 5 more weeks.

The new pain reliever is Amantadine. It was compounded by the pharmacist and was $28 for about 5 doses (it is a liquid, so it is hard to tell exactly how many doses are in the bottle).

Don’t you need a prescription for Pentostan and HA?

I will look up T Relief and Pento Disc and ask the vet about them on Monday.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8549829]
The underwater treadmill is a great idea! And yes the vet does have one. I am wondering, though, if I could replicate the idea in my own tub? I know that dogs will start to doggie paddle when held above water, so they do not need to be swimming in deep water to start ‘swimming’.

What if I fill the tub about 2" deeper than she can easily stand in and, with my hand under her stomach for support, get her doggie paddling? I am sure that, at first one minute would be plenty, but we could lengthen the time as her muscles got stronger.

Yesterday, after her first dose of the new painkiller (A______) my Maggie wagged her tail and looked at the world around her!!! She had been in such pain for a week that she had withdrawn into herself. I was thinking that Monday might be “the day”, but now I am looking forward to a future.

How long can she stay on so many drugs? I will ask the vet on Monday, but I am wondering now if we can keep her out of pain with this combination, then I want to keep it going.[/QUOTE]

One of the benefits of the treadmill is that they have to place their feet correctly to “walk” so it can help nerve function to the hind end. You mentioned she wasn’t correcting her feet when placed upside down correct? Is that still an issue? Sometimes as the antiinflammatories kick in that can resolve as the spinal cord/nerves are less compressed.

[Lord_Helpus]

It has been a long weekend. Maggie was so bad on Sat (unaware of where she was, not trying to move) that, had it been a weekday, I would have taken her in to be put to sleep. I was a wreck.

But yesterday she was looking around and reacting to her surroundings again. She stayed with me all day (in car for errands, in golf cart when I was in the barn, and we went to bed at 7:30 because that was when she wanted to.)

Today is in the middle (looking around, but not walking). At some point I will have to leave her alone, but I worry that she will fall over and not be able to get up. No, I do not have a cage. Maggie has never been in one, except at the vet or groomers and she shakes like a leaf, so she will never be in one at home.

I want to know if there is a plan to make her better, or if we are just trying to control the pain. The vet has not suggested the treadmill, and I worry that is because Maggie has 2 places on her spine which are touching/subluxated plus the severe hip dysplasia. Can all 3 places be made good enough that she will walk again? I hope the vet can encourage me that we can do PT to improve her quality of life.

Thanks for reading. It helps to write things down

[jetsmom]

I don’t have any answers just hugs. I just put my 15-16 yr old German shep/boxer mix down for spinal degeneration about a month ago. It sucks.
Maybe your vet hasn’t mentioned treadmill or exercise due to the slipped discs. Would that aggravate it?
My heart breaks for you because I know what you are going thru.