Hello all,
I am curious if any of you have any experience with getting a Certificate of Pedigree from OLD NA/ISSR. I just purchased a 2021 filly who is by a Clydesdale out of a TB, she’s a pretty little thing. I emailed the office at the registry and said that they would release a certificate of pedigree which would allow us to qualify for highly point Oldenburg awards at shows and qualify for for USDF awards. I’m not sure if it’s worth it? I would love to get any input from you all.
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I dont see how a Clydesdale x TB has any connection to being an Oldenburg. I also don’t know why you’d want to compete or compare her to real Oldenburgs.
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You may be thinking of American Warmblood, they will register just about anything. You definitely can’t register the horse in question as an Oldenburg.
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Maybe the COP is for ISR which is their lesser book. The only thing useful would be it would guaranty her age and parentage. I guess that depends how much that is worth to you and what the cost is. It will not get the mare into any WB breeding books though and will not have reciprocity with the other registries.
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I would assume a COP? Perhaps based on the dam being inspected already. Go for it.
Has the dam been approved into one of the Oldenburg books?
I can see why the best breeders left. OP, submit parentage. Good luck. Contact the verband on the bloodlines. They may be able to help in terms of generational bleeding. Unlike what is posted
Really? Dam lines?
You don’t understand the different books.
I’m guessing that this mare was approved for breeding with OLD-NA. The foal would be eligible for a COP which is just a record of parentage.
I’m not sure if the foal would be eligible to participate in year end awards. OLD NA is not my registry of choice so truth be told I don’t know that much about it beyond basics (that are typically shared across registries anyway). I’ll let someone else chime in there.
Are you thinking of RPSI?
Yes definitely Old/NA, I emailed them directly.
Who is the dam?
- A Certificate of Pedigree (CP) is for horses that have one parent that is approved for breeding and one parent that is not. If going through the dam, she must be in the Main Studbook. If going through the sire, keep in mind that stallion dues may apply (e.g. Inactive Sire Fee if the stallion dues have not been previously paid for the year of breeding).
- Certificate of Pedigree horses, nor any of their offspring, ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR INSPECTION into the breeding program due to the fact that the one parent is not approved for breeding. They cannot have registered offspring. Members often take their CP horse to other registries who allow these horses to be entered into a lower level book and upon inspection, can have registered foals through that registry.
- Certificate of Pedigree horses are eligible for AHS year-end awards in performance sport horse classes. They would not be eligible for IBC’s (Individual Breed Class awards) as these only apply to fully-papered Hanoverian or Rhineland horses.
This is from the AHS website and because I am not interested in OldNA or ISR I do NOT know their rules. This is not to diss their horses- there are some lovely horses in that registry but I am not interested in them to register my horses or get breeding approval.
I do NOT know what you are referring to “about damlines”. I have a friend with an absolutely lovely Hanoverian stallion, with the best damlines ( His dam has produced 4 licensed stallions in Germany). He has not met breeding approval due to nonwork related injuries. I could breed my AHS mare to him ( which has been inspected and is in the breeding books) and all I could get for the foal is a COP.
I am going to try to be polite here but the ISR registry was recognizing a huge marketing niche. All these people had horses they wanted to promote as warmbloods but they did not fit the criteria for European registries - draft blood, quarter horse etc. So ISR gave them a place to register them besides American Warmblood. I assume it was profitable because then you had RPSI with their “Book 2” for stallions. I suppose if the TB mare was in the OLDNA main stud book and was bred to a Percheron then you could get a COP. I do not know their rules though.
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That’s the thing, she’s not in the book yet so I would have to pay to have her inspected/entered into the books. And she’s not even my mare lol! The more I think about it, the more I think I am just going to pass on the COB/COP. I’m not convinced it’s worth it.
And the TB dam would have to score enough points to make it into the Main Stud Book. I do not know how hard that would be in OLDNA. I think they are pretty TB friendly. A nursing mare is probably not at their best physically. For AHS an outside mare must score a premium score and also score high enough on a performance test to qualify for the main stud book. I do not know OLDNA’s requirements for main stud book and if the mare is required to do a performance test. Ka-ching.
I do not know what the cost would be and I do not know if the mare’s owner would have to pay the OLDNA member fees or you. Then there would be the inspection fees for the mare. Plus transportation to the inspection site, braiding, fees for handler. Perhaps fees for performance test. Double ka-ching. I don’t think I would want to spend that much for a COP.
Without knowing details about the registries, on no planet is an F1 draft/TB cross a European WB. They can be very nice useful horses, they can look a bit like a WB if the genetic stars align, but they aren’t.
I can see why an American offshoot of a European registry might decide to offer a basic birth certificate with no breed registry to all the folks out there with draft crosses etc. But I’m not sure that’s in anyone’s best interest.
When you go to sell said horse and mention it’s connected to a WB registry, all the shopper’s eyes will pop open, thinking they are getting the deal of the century. And then when you have to explain that no, this horse is in no way actually an Oldenburg they will feel ripped off.
Why not go with Sport Horse or American Warmblood that are known to register a much wider range of horse? That lets you have an official pedigree that can be useful.
A TB mare that has not been inspected and a stallion who can not be approved. That is not an Oldenburg.
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I’ve been away from the breeding world for many years, but I used to do a lot of work with the Oldenburg Verband, which operates in North America as Oldenburg Horse Breeders Society (OHBS, or also known as GOV - German Oldenburg Verband). Bear in mind that ONA/ISR is a completely different registry that has no connection to or recognition by the Verband.
There is NO WAY the Oldenburg Verband or its North American division would consider a foal sired by a Clydesdale out of a TB for registration. It probably wouldn’t even give it a certificate of pedigree (which is not the same as a “certificate of registration”).
ONA/ISR makes up its own rules, but my understanding is that they would consider your foal for only a Certificate of Pedigree from its ISR division (International Sporthorse Registry). So your foal would be an International Sporthorse - not an Oldenburg (truth be told, even ONA registered horses are not considered as “Oldenburgs” by the Verband).
Also, be aware that ONA/ISR and OHBS/GOV run their own awards programs, and this includes different categories for USDF year end awards. Your foal will be eligible for awards from the registry that issues its papers. So a Certificate of Pedigree from ISR may allow you to compete for awards sponsored by ONA/ISR but it is disingenuous to refer to “Oldenburg” awards for a horse with a COP from ISR.
That said, even a COP is a good way to have proof of age, which can come in handy should you decide to sell her at some point.
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