Older horses - teeth "expiring"

[PaddockWood]

Back in 2001 I had the good fortune to find Dr. Tom Allen a DVM who only did dentistry and even wrote a book, The Manual of Equine Dentistry. I’d bought a mare who was super grumpy and I knew something was wrong and found Dr. Tom and he found a fractured molar.

He suggested we avoid drilling and pounding out because of the related complications and suggested I call OSU and get a second opinion if I wanted. We did not drill it out. It took him three visits to get that damn tooth but do you know she became the SWEETEST horse once we got it out.

He retired and I had more good luck to have a board certified dentist nearby and since then have had three more horses need extractions. Never once a drill and pound out.

I would also ask were xrays taken?

What I’ve learned over all these years and with the damage that can be done to horses mouths without proper training I wouldn’t use anyone but a specialist on something like an extraction. Or even regular dentistry for that matter.

Have these horses had regular care by a qualified dentist for years? And using a head lamp, speculum and full oral exam?

[Laurierace]

My mare’s case was different than yours as she was long retired from being a broodmare so there was not really anything to consider other than her quality of life. It would have meant sending her away to a rehab facility since her retirement farm didn’t offer the intensive aftercare she would have needed. It just didn’t seem fair to put her through all that just so I could say she is still alive. I have talked to people who have made the decision to have all their horse’s teeth removed and they all said that the first month was not only intense but it was also very hard to keep them comfortable.

[CHT]

Yes, these horses are under regular (annual) care by a vet/dentist.

I almost wonder if the dental work has been overdone. I used to board for a vet, and she mentioned that she felt annual floats were risking using up their teeth so her own horse as only done every two years.

We haven’t done x-rays done yet, but that would be the next steps it seems.

[CHT]

I think it depends how deep the roots are. The teeth are quite solid, but obviously can’t know for sure without x-rays.

How do they loosen the tooth?

[Pico_Banana]

@CHT

I almost wonder if the dental work has been overdone. I used to board for a vet, and she mentioned that she felt annual floats were risking using up their teeth so her own horse as only done every two years.

That’s kinda scary. I feel like my vet is super conservative when she does my horses’ teeth. One of my mares develops sharp edges very quickly so we actually float her every six months, but it’s merely to even her out and keep her comfortable. And both my regular vet and a specialist dentist have been in favor of every six months for her.

[vxf111]

I’ve had two with EROTH. One we removed the teeth bit by bit in the field as they got worse. That was many years ago and the vet/dentist felt it was appropriate given his condition.

The more recent one I sent to the clinic for immediate removal of all the front teeth.

The surgery didn’t really impact him much (getting him on the trailer was more traumatic, he’s an a-hole) and he bounced back perfectly.

Don’t let the concept of removing teeth scare you off. Both my horses were much better without their teeth. Both woke up and immediately tried to eat. After care was not that big of a deal.

The first one went on to have many more happy years and was put to sleep at age 31 for something unrelated. The current jerk will probably outlive me because that’s his MO.

[PaddockWood]

@CHT

I almost wonder if the dental work has been overdone. I used to board for a vet, and she mentioned that she felt annual floats were risking using up their teeth so her own horse as only done every two years.

I’d agree that overfloating has been going on since power tools entered the scene. Even Dr. Allen said those with lots of training even had to learn from their mistakes.

And God help the horses that have someone get in their mouth who is not trained. There was a recent podcast between Tristan Tucker and Wouter Demey, a highly educated dental practioner in Belgium about JUST how sensitive the horse’s oral cavity is and all the damage that can be done. It’s eye opening and a quite valuable listen.

Stress causing lesions in the horse's mouth? With Wouter Demey - Podcast #14

[Jarpur]

We have dentals (performed by a veterinarian dentist) doneevery other year, just what’s necessary for each horse.

[Bogey2]

All three? That sounds wrong to me. In all my years I have only had one old horse struggle with infection in a cracked tooth so it came out. I currently have 6 horses between 22 and 28 and NONE have needed teeth removed.

[ratherberiding1999]

My gelding has EOTRH. He’s 15, and it’s been going on for ~2 years at this point. I first noticed it when he was reluctant to bite into things like apples or carrots, and he started hanging the tip of his tongue out of his mouth. I suggested EOTRH to my vet and she agreed that’s what it was. She did standing sedation right there at the farm for x-rays of top and bottom incisors- bottom looked fine but on top, we could clearly see the damaged and eaten away roots, and the hypercementosis deposits. My vet suggested removing the top incisors stepwise so he wouldn’t have such a huge hole while his gums healed, to help lower risk of infection and complications. He had his two middle incisors out last summer, again with standing sedation right at the farm. The vet just uses a periodontal elevator to loosen the tooth and the ligaments around it and then just pulls it out. You can see on the teeth once they’re out how uneven and painful looking the roots are. And it’s an immediate relief to the horse- mine woke up and right away started eating hay. I flushed his mouth with water and dilute chlorhexidine for a few weeks and he got a few days of bute, and had no issues during the healing process. Since then I’ve been keeping an eye on his teeth and gums to watch for any more inflammation. Right before we pulled those teeth, his gums were red and inflamed, and clearly swollen right around the base of the tooth. I also chip the tartar off the incisors that are left every few weeks- now that there’s a gap in the middle, it tends to collect and bridge the gap on top, and collect food debris. My horse is super good and lets me do anything in his mouth, sweet boy. He had the next two incisors from the middle out a few weeks ago, and same thing- easy recovery, immediately back to eating hay, few days of bute, and dilute chlorhexidine rinses- he’s doing great. He’s still got his bottom incisors and the most lateral top one on each side, and has no problems with 4 less teeth. He still eats normally, has no problem grazing, and looks super cute with the tip of his tongue poking out in front!

It only cost me a few hundred for each procedure. If your vet is able to do standing sedation on the farm for EOTRH tooth removals, I highly recommend it. My boy is much happier with them gone. The last two on top will probably be coming out in the next few months, and we’ll keep watching the bottom incisors. EOTRH usually only affects the incisors.

[RedHorses]

My senior will be 26 in April and I’ve been getting his teeth done every six months for over ten years. I feel it’s easier on him and the vet to do touch ups more often, rather than a big float once a year.

I think the vet will catch problems earlier and have to do less to resolve them, but I do it because the last time he went a year he had ulcers from the tooth points, and needed sedation to get the last part done. He had been a no-sedation, manual float up to that float, and remained a no-sedation, manual float for years afterwards.

Apparently grain/pellets/“hard” feed increases the uneven wear on horses’ teeth because they use a smaller jaw motion than when they’re chewing long stem forage. I had a 20+ yr old senior as my first horse and he only needed minimal work every second year. He had virtually no grain for his entire life. My current senior’s grain fluctuates between 1-5lbs/day depending on his weight and workload at the time.

[RMJacobs]

Shortly before my Paint mare ran out of teeth, she had what DH thought was an overly vigorous float. I wasn’t there, but DH was very upset with the equine dentist who was with a reputable large animal practice. DH always felt the float was responsible for her smooth gums not long afterward.

Rebecca

[CHT]

None of these horses have infections. I think the idea is to remove them before they get an infection which could cause issues with the jaw bone. they have cracks which could lead to infection though.

[Kyrabee]

My mare (22 this year) lost the crown of a molar slowly over 3 years. It just fell out in several slabs. Late 2022, the final piece fell out. So she still has the root. Last spring, the vet thought the root should come out and since it is a top molar, they would have to access it through the sinus…from above. There is nothing to grasp from inside her mouth.

I was going on vacation so decided since she was showing no evidence of infection on x-ray, I would wait until I got home. Well, crap happened when I brought COVID home with me. I passed it to my elderly Mom who got over COVID OK but had another serious health issue arise. So, the horse didn’t get rechecked until October. She still was having no issues (no quiding , no smell, no issues chewing) so the vet probed the root and could find no pockets so I decided to leave it alone. The vet concurred that until she had an issue, we would leave it.

I now have to do her dentals every 6 months because where there is no crown, the opposing tooth below has no wear and it over grows. We are now nearly 6 months farther along and she is still having no issues. I will be taking her by April for another check and a dental. If she has any indication things are deteriorating, I will do the surgery. I was told, it would be standing and was quoted $1500-2000 last year (in other words, it would be more now).

Susan

[cayuse]

Well this is a timely thread. My old timer just had a dental and may need 3-4 molars removed. He’s always had a good dental, although by a different vet so I’m another who doesn’t know what to think. Vet has sent the x-rays to the dentist for an opinion. Not sure if it’s EOTRH or not yet. I really hope it’s a “wait and watch” scenario as it hasn’t been a year since the mini’s sinus surgery/tooth extraction and that was an ongoing budget buster for 12 months prior until he got sorted. Anyways, I appreciate the info here.

[RedHorses]

May not be relevant as your horses’ cracks might be different.

My then 8yr old horse cracked the first molar on the lower left. He had developed a lump on his jaw and x-rays showed it was cracked vertically up between the roots. Some cloudiness on the rad suggested early signs of infection. As there was no other sign of infection we tried to save it and see if it would heal.

I had to give him 10 big antibiotic pills each day, and while they would break down in water, they wouldn’t dissolve or stay suspended long enough to syringe. They tasted nasty as well.

I also had to check his breath for a foul smell, and check that the lump on his jaw wasn’t growing larger. I couldn’t use a bit for eight weeks, and had to alter his hackamore so the curb strap didn’t interfere with the lump.

His molar healed x-rays a couple of months later showed the crack was gone. Over the following years the lump on his jaw shrank to the point I could only find it because I knew it was there. It did vanish completely many years later.

In the eighteen years since he’s never had an issue with that molar. And yes, I did go back to using a bit. It happened in January, and the vet suspected he’d chomped on a chunk of frozen something to cause the original crack.

[CHT]

I think the difference is that a young horse likely has healthy/uncracked roots to push out the broken part, whereas in an older horse, the crack is more likely to extend into the gum line, and not be pushed out, making it more likely that infection will move into the root. In theory, a minor infection should make the tooth easier to remove I think?

[RedHorses]

My horse’s tooth was cracked up between the two roots belonging to that molar, and didn’t extend all the way to the crown. It actually healed rather than growing out. Yours are probably cracked top down, which is why I said it might not be relevant.

[Victorious]

Responding to the other poster who asked about EOTRH-I also put my old TB down rather than go through the surgery-He would have needed all front teeth removed and general anesthesia. He had so many other issues and was such a bad candidate for rehab/recovery that I chose to euthanize him. It was already on my mind, I had been thinking about it all last year and wondering if he would be comfortable through another winter. When that diagnosis rolled in in October, it helped me make up my mind. I wonder if it was the right call all the time. Such a hard decision

[RMJacobs]

If we didn’t care so much for our horses, it would be an easy decision whether or not to euthanize. But we put their comfort above our own, as it should be.

Rebecca