Older mare GI issues entering winter (no more grass)

Apologies in advance, I think this may get long…

My 30 year old Morgan mare is having a really difficult time as we transition to winter (we are in Vermont). For the past two weeks, we’ve had snow on the ground, and there is no more grass accessible. Once the grass was covered, it was like a switch flipped- she has stopped eating almost any pelleted food, and goes through the motions of eating hay but doesn’t seem to be getting much down. She has terrible teeth- has had 4-5 molars removed over the years, and those that are left have nearly no grinding surface left. With such an abrupt change in her diet, she is having explosive diarrhea- though I almost hesitate to call it diarrhea, as it’s simply manure-stained liquid pools that are freezing all over everything they land on, including her. Temps are already below freezing so clean up is difficult.

I’m really beating myself up because I had been on the fence all fall about euthanizing before the winter. By the end of last winter, we were struggling with keeping weight on and similar GI upset/liquid manure. I stayed in close contact with my vet about this all year; every time she saw the horses for routine care, we’d discuss Isabel’s BCS (right at a high 4/low 5), attitude, etc. When she last saw the horses for fall shots in October, I asked her to be really direct with me about whether I was letting myself be blinded by a horse who was happy and looked shiny from a warm fall with lots of good grass. But she really felt the mare had another winter in her. In addition to being happy with the grass, I had switched her over to Triple Crown Senior, and for ~2 months, she was eating 6 lbs/daily of TC Senior and nibbling hay. The hay we have this year is the softest I’ve ever had- last year it was almost polar opposite, stemmy and coarse, and we thought a lot of the digestive upset we saw towards the end of last winter was that the stemmy hay was becoming too irritating to her digestive system given the condition of her teeth. Since she had been eating so well all fall, I felt that I was in a good position to keep weight on her, even though I knew she would have some issues-physically and mentally-once the grass was gone. Now I’m just really mad at myself for making what seems to be the wrong decision.

I’ve tried not to panic over the last few days, and I don’t want to switch so many things suddenly that I make the situation worse. I’ve got a call in to the vet this morning, but would welcome any opinions on what you might try to reset the GI system and generate some appetite again.

What I have tried over the past week:

  1. I removed all powdered supplements/additions in the feed (ground flax, loose salt, Probios, Vit E). No real difference in interest. She has well-controlled Cushings and is still getting (and eating) her Prascend.
  2. I did have a tube of Probios gel so have done 1/2 tube in the morning the past two days. Don’t think it’s changed anything.
  3. I did a couple of days of Ulcerguard. At first, she was acting like she wanted to eat- sticking her nose in the feed pan, pushing the food around, dumping the bowl on the ground and halfheartedly eating it. I wondered if maybe the stress of the grass disappearing was making her ulcery. This didn’t seem to make any difference to her appetite. I stopped after two tubes.
  4. Food has always been well soaked because of the teeth situation and history of choke. But I was finding that the drier I made it, the more she would eat. Against my better judgement, I gave her 1/2 lb of TC senior totally dry today, and she ate more of it than she has the past few days. But I don’t think I’m comfortable making a habit of that.
  5. I’m offering her a tub of Safe Starch + chopped alfalfa. For a minute, she’ll dive into it like she wants to inhale the whole tub. And then after a minute, it’s like she loses interest and either leaves it or dumps it out and soils it.
  6. I’ve added some strongly flavored treats (Stabul 1- banana and cinnamon) that I know she likes to the feed. I think she has eaten the treats out but hasn’t increased her overall interest in the rest of the feed. Was also considering doing something like peppermint oil mixed in but haven’t tried that yet?

Writing all that out, I feel awful throwing so many changes at her and probably that’s not helping. I just feel so desperate to get her eating something, anything again. It’s too early in the winter for her to stop eating and start losing weight. Her ribs are well covered but her flanks are already starting to get a sunken look, which is concerning.

Sorry this has gotten so long. I’m just feeling so guilty and sad and mad at myself, I know I need some objective outside opinions on anything I’m missing (and of course will be working with our vet hands-on). Euthanasia is of course still an option, though becomes infinitely more complicated logistically with each day that goes by because of the weather. If there’s a viable option to stabilize her for the next few months and get her through until the spring, that would be ideal. It’s more than clear that if we are able to do that, we’ll be choosing a beautiful sunny day next fall to say our final goodbyes.

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{HUGS}
Watching them age is hard enough without problems.
You mention chopped alfalfa, have you tried the Standlee compressed forage? TSC carries it & it comes in alf/orchard, Timothy/orchard & IIRC, straight alfalfa.
While I’m not a fan - too much waste for daily feeding to my 3 - a friend uses it exclusively for her aged pony.
Maybe w/o mixing anything with it, may be more acceptable to your mare?

Forgive me being blunt, but if you need to euth before Spring, is the issue you want to bury her?
If so, have the hole dug now before the ground is too frozen. Apologies if that’s already happened.
If you don’t need it, at least it’s done & can be filled in.
If not burying, in my area there are renderers who will pick up in any weather.

Doing the Eat Something More! Dance for you both.

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Can you try offering her the TCS in more, smaller meals? Maybe also try just a tiny bit of water - enough for you not to worry about choke, but no more.

I’ve heard others on this board talk about switching to Triple Crown Complete for their seniors for increased palatability. (I keep an eye on these things because I have a 29 y.o.)

I also am a big fan of Speedi-Beet. I have to admit I’ve never tried other brands of beet pulp, but all of my horses really like the Speedi-Beet. You can play around with how much water to put in that, too, so you can find what your mare likes.

Both of my girls are feeling the lack of grass (we still have enough I let them nibble on it for an hour each morning) and have had some runny poop. My younger one definitely has FFW and gets psyllium AM and PM. My senior is not that bad, but I have been adding in a scoop of the psyllium to her dinner and that seems to be helping. Maybe something to try? (I would suggest pure powder, not a pellet.)

Sending positive thoughts your way.

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I’m not familiar with the compressed forage but will look it up- if you have a minute, could you share your thoughts on how it might be a better option than the Safe Starch forage? I’m definitely open to making a change and I know my feed store carries it.

As far as euthanasia challenges- I would ideally like to have her buried here and yes, we probably should get on the phone with our excavator friend while the ground still has some give to it. If we did have to have a service pick up her body, there are other logistics around how we would get her body from the pasture she lives in to a place along the road where it could be collected. We live on a narrow, dirt road a mile from the pavement, and a large truck coming in during the winter may not be possible. And no need to apologize for bluntness- my husband and I talked through different scenarios like this last night. I lost a mare suddenly and unexpectedly in December two years ago (catastrophic spinal issue), and after having to get her body out of the barn for pickup without having a plan ahead of time, I don’t ever want to be left without a plan again.

I have tried doing this, but she still just picks at it. And gets really resentful if she gets locked in. The other horses are right outside the shed where I can close her up with the food, but she seems so distracted by being “separated” that she won’t eat.

I am too! Prior to switching to TC Senior, I was feeding Speedibeet + ration balancer (and still do to my other two horses). I stopped giving her Speedibeet because TCS already has so much beet pulp, but I’ll try putting this out this afternoon and seeing if she’s happy to have it again :wink:

Also, psyllium- yes, this is what ultimately saved us from the runny poop last spring! I found that adding Fiberpsyll pellets daily made a ton of difference for her, and I had been including that in her feed up through last week when she stopped eating. I didn’t know there was a powder so I will see if I can get ahold of that. IF she will eat the Speedibeet again, I’ll add that in.

Thanks to you both for the good wishes and suggestions. She is my first horse, and they are always special :heart: I’ve known her more than half her life and I can’t bare to see her so uncomfortable.

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This is the stuff I’m thinking of:

https://www.standleeforage.com/products/certified-alfalfa-grab-go-compressed-bale/

I’m not familiar with the product you’re using, but maybe you can compare.

Glad you & DH are thinking ahead re: logistics

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I’m in a similar situation. My 33yo who’s also missing some molars and what molars are left are pretty darn smooth, so hay is really not an option for him. He won’t eat chopped forage either, and I haven’t found a hay cube he’ll eat either (obviously soaked, not optional).

What I’ve found works best is fairly frustrating, but not a huge pita - change things up regularly.

I can get through a couple/three bags of a feed before he slows down even more, and then he picks up again with a different feed.

I’ve rotated around TC Sr/Sr Gold/Complete (he liked Complete best), Nutrena ProForce Sr (current)/Fuel/Fuel XF (XF was good for maybe 6 bags), Sentinel Sr (not a fan), Purina Sr (not a fan), ProElite Sr (not a fan).

And then, I’ve added in some combination of calf/horse manna (because everyone says it’s like crack but HE didn’t think so) and beet pulp and alflafa pellets

for MANY years he ate a soaked ration balancer, but now he won’t eat much of any meal that’s fully soaked. What he WILL eat, is some soaked beep/alf pellet mix, or either one, on top of (but not mixed into!) the current ProForce Sr. BUT, it can’t be too wet, so usually I soak for the next feeding so alllll the water is absorbed.

I don’t have to soak the Sr feeds for him, thankfully, as he’s not a choke risk for a variety of reasons, including slow methodical eater, small bits, and he chews with is mouth open and dropping feed anyway LOL

I’ve even changed around whether he eats out of a large 20qt corner feed bucket, or a flat feed pan to pique his interest more, right now we’re back to the big bucket.

I hope that gives you some ideas. You can also look into a flat/low water container, 25 or 50g, to spread out food, adding big rocks, to hopefully do less soaking

i know some others will spray in some apple juice, or drizze on some “alfalfa tea” or “rice bran tea” or use powdered fenugreek or cinnamon or crushed soft peppermints, to add flavor

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Read it quickly, so apologies if I misunderstand something.

Have you tried soaked hay cubes? I have fed them in Coleman coolers, so you can prep them at one meal, and then just wheel the cooler out and pop off the lid to feed outside.

I usually soak feed to mush but a couple of horses here are like yours, including an ancient donkey prone to choke. In their case I dunk their feedbags in water for 5-10 minutes so it’s still mostly solid but not as dry as unsoaked.

You could ask your vet if your horse is a candidate for Purina Well Gel. I’ve only used ot to keep weight on really old horses for whom that was an issue, so not diarrhea.

Good luck!

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Have you tried Timothy Balance Cubes? They soak up to a nice soft mash in just a few minutes or if you can use less water to their liking. A little molasses added might help if she can have it.
I’ve had good luck with Bio-Sponge for diarrhea.
As far as her not eating the Safe-Starch, I have one who will absolutely not touch the stuff, I think it’s the smell.

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@JB, while I’m sorry to hear your older guy has you running around to meet his very discerning needs, reading how you keep him interested in eating with frequent changes is actually extremely reassuring. I have been hesitant to rotate around too many different feeds as I have always had it drilled in to me that you should make limited feed changes. I think Isabel is about to teach me sometimes you throw the “rules” out the window :wink: My feed store is great and I have access to pretty much any brand of senior- TC, Purina, Hygain, Cavalor, Nutrena, Buckeye, Poulin. I have to go pick up some other stuff tomorrow so I’ll grab a bag of something else. She used to do really well on Cavalor years ago when we boarded, so maybe I’ll try that. I was also going to grab a small bag of Calf Manna, which they carry- I too have heard every horse loves it, but haven’t tried it yet. If she’d eat something fairly high fat, I’d be happy. I know she won’t touch oils though.

I have also started changing around the feed pans, and right now it seems like a hard plastic one that I can run through the dishwasher every night is preferable to the more flexible rubber one which I can’t clean as effectively without the dishwasher.

This made me laugh out loud because I thought I was being really clever doing this- for a couple of days, I could get her to eat more in the afternoon with this trick. But now she’s on to me…

As far as soaked hay cubes- last year she gave those a resounding “NO,” but I didn’t worry too much about it because she liked Speedibeet. I still have some tim/alf cubes that I can try again. I think she might protest the amount of water I’d have to add to them though.

I really like the idea of crushing up the soft peppermints and adding to any of the feedings-she loves those peppermints, and my mother-in-law sends the horses pounds of them every Christmas and I have a whole closet shelf full of them because I hardly ever feed hem- it’s the world’s worst gift for a farm full of metabolically sensitive Morgans, but it might just be the trick in this scenario :wink:

@SMF11, I’ve never heard of the Well Gel but will ask my vet when she calls back. Fortunately this horse is really easy to syringe into.

@cayuse, I forgot about Bio-Sponge but I will order some. We did try the Platinum Performance GI last spring when she was having runny poop, but no improvement after 30 days on it. That’s when I tried the Fiberpsyll. The Safe Starch situation is weird- she seems to get really excited when she smells it, but then loses interest right away. Wish she could talk and explain why.

These ideas are all so helpful, thanks to everyone who took time to share!

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I just remembered something, my really old gelding absolutely LOVED Blue Seal Hay Stretcher and Poulin’s Carb Safe. Even towards the end when he got a bit picky he snarfed those down. The BS Hay Stretcher was fairly high in NSC if I remember right but he was in his 30’s with bad (horrible) dental issues from an ancient fractured jaw, so I just went with what he wanted at that point. .

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Have you tried foregoing the Cushing meds for a couple days? It really does make them not want to eat.

I swear by apple juice and cinnamon to get mine to eat or drink anything.

There was a thread where someone suggested B-12 to get their horse to eat.

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I got sugar free peppermint flavoring (like for fancy coffees) and used that to entice my picky eater in his twilight. Easier than grinding peppermints and it wasn’t very expensive

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A mini-happy dance: I soaked up a couple of handfuls of Speedibeet and mixed in some crushed soft peppermints. It was hydrated but not “wet.” Then I layered 3/4 lb of TCS on top, but I didn’t mix it all together. She got right to work on the feed pan and didn’t stop until it was gone!!!

Will this work tomorrow? Who knows. But as for tonight, she’s at least eaten something!

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Thank goodness! I know that is a huge relief.

The only thing I can suggest is to read Heinz57’s thread “Another New Horse - It’s Bo!” in the Off Course forum. She posts a lot about trying to please her 20+ year old picky eater.

Sending lots of jingles for you and Isabel. I love Morgans. I have been working on feeding my 19yo picky-eater cat and it is very stressful for us both.
She sends purrs along with the jingles.

ETA: Off Course forum, not Office Course. Oops.

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For sure! Mostly, that “don’t make drastic changes” rule is about, well, drastic changes LOL Like, don’t go from grass hay to alfalfa cold turkey (or vice versa). Don’t add 2lb rice bran at once. Don’t go from no grain/feed, to 6lb a meal. That sort of thing.

But swapping around every 10-14 days between higher quality, forage based feeds like I listed? They’re basically all the “same”, so not a big deal. It’s like humans eating broccoli and spinach as vegggies for a month, and suddenly switching to Brussels sprouts and collards, not a big deal.

I’m envious you have access to so many brands!

I find this - your situation and mine - the most fascinating of all

Good luck with the peppermints!

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Woohoo on eating!!!

Isn’t it amazing how such a thing fills us with joy and relief? :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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Did I miss a reason why you are feeding safe starch? My horses generally do not love it, and when my boy was very unwell, he wouldn’t touch it.

Vet suggested trying a chopped hay product since her molars are very bad and she goes through the motions of eating regular grass hay but isn’t breaking it down all that well. She actually really liked the Safe Starch all fall, but has turned her nose up at it the past week, along with just about everything else she was happily eating.

Still interested in eating today, and happily the explosive wet manure is calming down. She ate all the TCS off the top of the SpeediBeet this morning (and some of the SpeediBeet, just not all). I did make it to the feed store, and I picked up some Calf Manna and Cavalor FiberForce as “mixers.” I went with the FiberForce as it seems like maybe she’s willing to eat the TC senior for now, but I want some additional interesting forage options to entice her with too. I tossed a handful of the Calf Manna in tonight and she ate that, a good amount of soaked SpeediBeet, and 1lb senior. I may start to see if I can cautiously increase the amount of senior, and will add another meal if needed. She seems to eat a lot more eagerly in the afternoon/evening than the morning.

The not-so-good development today, she has started wood chewing and beaver-gnawed a large part of the frame around the window in her shed. Last year I did put out some soft bark trees in the pasture mid winter and I know she would nibble them occasionally. Vitamin imbalance? Need for more forage in her system? Not sure.

Here she is this afternoon-she’s fuzzy and standing a little twisted (she was about to come over to see me) but you can see her belly & flank area is thinner than I’d like. Her eyes were bright again today though, that was a relief.

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She looks very good to me!

(But you are right to stay on top of feeding/weight issues in a 30 year old horse)

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