Older orphaned foal, help

[Hampton_Bay]

Waiting for a return call from my vet, as he isn’t very educated in foals and wanted a second opinion.

My older mare is likely going to have to be put down due to EPM in the next couple days. She has a 7week old filly right now. She is still lactating but as she’s having more trouble moving and isn’t eating much, it’s not looking good long term. Unfortunately we are in the middle of nowhere with little selection in feed brands. We need a plan ahead of time. The vets here aren’t terribly informed about older orphaned foals.

The filly has been eating a little solid food with mom, but is primarily on her dam still. What should we be looking at to feed her when the time comes? We tried another mare but it did not work out. A friend can bottle feed her, but at 7weeks I’m not sure if she would take a bottle. Would milk pellets, if we can get them, be better? If we should do a liquid milk replacer, is the commercial stuff, if I can get it, fine? Raw cows milk? I’m not sure what I can get, but I need to know what to look for first.

[Laurierace]

Can you get Buckeye or Progressive Nutrition? I would go with their milk pellets or foal’s first. I would not give her any milk or milk replacer. Sorry your mare is doing so poorly.

[China_Doll]

I thought baby formula was common for orphans. Check with another vet if needed. Maybe they have formula for horses. You can put it in a bucket, you don’t need to bottle feed. at 7 weeks they should be eating some grass and grain i would think.

[Blugal]

I did some searching when this happened to me (foal was a bit older, 3 months I recall).

There was one brand of milk replacer she hated, a different brand of pellets which she “liked.” She had been eating grain with her dam.

She refused to drink milk of any type, bottle, bucket, syringe. So I ended up making this awful paste by grinding the pellets in a coffee grinder, mixing them with soaked alfalfa cubes and some of the foal grain, and feeding several times per day (as it went rancid in the heat).

Also I randomly phoned a feed company (I think one of the ones of the milk replacer I was using) and spoke to their nutritionist. Free advice on feeding. It made me feel better about what I was doing, with my options.

I also ordered, per recommendations here, some Foal Aid (or maybe it’s FoalAide). Do a search, I think there were also two brands of that.

Good luck, it isn’t easy. See if you can find any companion/babysitter, the foal will feel a lot better even if she can’t nurse. And it will be safer (if you really are in the middle of nowhere) re: predators.

[Simkie]

Hampton, I have nothing to add, but I’m very sorry about your mare

[csaper58]

Call LSU Vet School. They will connect you with a Dr. who can answer your questions.
225-578-9500

If it is at all possible to keep your mare going for even a few weeks, it will be worth it. Feeding an orphan is VERY expensive and time consuming if you don’t have a nurse mare. Foals need to eat every few hours, even if it is just a few sips of milk, to prevent ulcers and colic. If you must put the mare down, try to find an equine ‘babysitter’ to be a companion to the foal.

I fed my orphan… Foal Lac powder milk replacer from a bucket, then added the Foal-lac pellets (in a pan on the ground), when he had teeth to chew, added Purine Equine Jr. very gradually to the pellets.

A foal’s gut is not developed enough for it to eat the amount of grain it needs to stay alive, the flora that populates the gut is not there yet, and they may not have all their teeth yet. The mare’s milk is the best food.

[camohn]

We had one a few years ago, and our vet had us feed her alfalfa hay for added calcium and protein as well,

[Home_Again_Farm]

At seven weeks, I would keep her on milk replacer (Buckeye, Progressive Nutrition, Land O’ Lakes are the better ones). You can either bucket feed or rig up an igloo feeder. When the baby is about three months old you can start transitioning to milk pellets. I think that it is very beneficial for the foal to have liquid milk as long as possible, though.

Igloo info:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?352303-need-help-how-to-build-a-foal-feeding-igloo-tonight!

Alternatively, if you have a kind older mare who might accept the foal, you can induce lactation, but that will take some time and your vet’s assistance.

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/17506/induction-of-lactation-in-the-non-pregnant-mare

I have raised a few foals using the bucket method and Buckeye milk replacer. The advantage to an igloo is that you do not need to worry about flies and the foal can have constant access to milk. Obviously a mare that has been induced to give milk gives constant milk, plus companionship and social skills.

There are many thread on raising orphans that you can search for.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[omare]

We lost a mare with the foal at 8 weeks old-Foal was eating TC complete grain well with her mother -so the vet said keep her on that–just as well as she refused any milk products. I had read that they dont digest grain well at that age but she always thrived and never looked poor. Her sister ended up being her babysitter.(We also gave her ulcer medicine to start and rejuvenaid (sp?)
(So very sorry.)

[Libera]

Can you milk the mare while she is still around and store the milk in the freezer?

[Hampton_Bay]

Unfortunately, there is no waiting a little bit or trying to keep her around for the sake of the foal. She has been going through phases where she is down for extended periods, and the filly is starving when we get the mare back up. Mare is still alert and whinnying, comes very slowly for feed, so the vet isn’t recommending to put her down yet. But I don’t want the filly going hungry, and the mare is so thin her milk seems to be drying up. She’s on so many meds, I’m quite worried for the foal due to the large amount of NSAIDs.

We cannot get any of the good brands. Literally, we can get dumor medicated calf powder, which isn’t helpful, and whatever the other feed store can get from Purina or Lone Star. The options are very very limited. I got a very small bag of manna pro nurse all to get us through the next few days until we can order through the feed store. What does Purina or lone star have that would work?

[Hampton_Bay]

Foal also has many potential babysitters. Once we get her eating, she will go in with the other foal and that mare. We tried to get that mare to take both foals, as she is fat and maintains it easily, but no luck. We tried a few other mares that could have been induced to lactate, but filly just isn’t interested and every mare has kicked.

[cyriz_s_mom]

How far are you from Shreveport?

Holly Hill is next week and I could probably get someone from Dallas to bring Progressive or Buckeye (heck, whatever you want to try) if you could pick it up.

My understanding is that their digestive system can’t really process grain products until they are 3 mos…so need milk-based (whether liquid or pellet) until then.

I’m happy to try to arrange to get something to you.

[Hampton_Bay]

I’m an hour from Shreveport. Will be there Thursday and Friday next week anyway. If you can bring me some decent pellets, I would be forever greatful. Feed store person who orders was off today so I don’t know what we can get, if anything.

[csaper58]

I think Folsom had lots available due to so many breeding farms. Spencer’s Feed Store could be helpful. www.spencersfeedandseed.com may be they could drop ship or over-night to you?

PS. I have a foal Igloo I could send you. Can you hand milk the other mare, the one that has a foal and plenty of milk, and feed that to the baby?

[cyriz_s_mom]

I have access to pretty much any brand you would want via our local feed stores. And I have a number of friends going to HH, so happy to make it happen.

Feel free to PM me and we can discuss in more detail once you know what you want.

[Cindy_s_Warmbloods]

Sorry to hear about your mare. FWIW we raised one about 25yrs ago that was a 8 week old orphan. At the time (and not knowing better), we just gave him lots of good green grass, some hay to nibble and a complete pellet as he refused any kind of milk pellet. He turned out just fine and I am sure yours will too. Just heartbreaking for the little guy and you too

[Hampton_Bay]

It is heartbreaking. The dam is my heart horse. I’ve had her for almost 11 years. I retrained her from nothing, and she was doing most of third level when I retired her sound at 21. She couldn’t do the changes anymore at that point, but could otherwise get around a third level test pretty well for a QH. It’s very hard because this filly was a big surprise because my neighbor can’t keep his feral stallions contained. We had no idea she was in foal, as she didn’t act at all like she had with her previous foal. I don’t even know how she ended up bred. She drops so much weight when lactating, and I can’t help but think that contributed to her body not being able to fight off the EPM.

[Fred]

I am very sorry for you and your mare, OP.
I would echo what MaryLou and others have said. Sadly, I have raised two foals, and strongly recommend milk replacer, but it needs to be for horses, NOT calves or deer.
In the meantime, if you can milk the other mare to get some extra in your foal, that would be great.
It is easier if you use a syringe, 30 or 60 ml one, cut the end with the tip off and reverse it in the tube. You can place the sort of ‘flange’ end over the mare’s teat and draw down gently… it may take a few tries, but it works.
The foal does need to be fed frequently, far more often than in the instructions on the package, in my experience.
If you can get the baby to drink the milk replacer from the bucket or have an igloo (csaper has offered one!) that is a less labour intensive way to do it.
Thank you to cryiz’mom for your help - really great.

I would be careful putting the foal in with the other mare and foal, if you can find a nice small pony for a while that works… you just don’t want the foal to get hurt.

I would try to get the foal drinking the milk replacer asap, before you have to put your mare down, if you can.

Good luck OP, it can be done, just takes hard work and determination. I’m sure you can do it.
Again, sad and sorry about your mare.

[Home_Again_Farm]

If you are stuck with Foal Lac milk replacer, it is still doable. I would order some Rejuvenaide from Progressive Nutrition or some Buckeye Foal Aide and give it to the foal. I could not get an orphan to take the Buckeye milk replacer after she had gotten used to the Foal Lac (it is sweeter than the acidified Buckeye stuff). I just supplemented with the Foal Aide paste and the filly did fine.

You face a tragic decision, but I am sure you will do what is best for your poor mare and the foal.:yes::sadsmile: