Omnibus vs USEA

[Everydayriding]

Posting as an alter as I fully support a show but have questions regarding some of the levels

USEA lists Starter as * Starter: A horse trial level with maximum height of jumps at 2’3” (27 inches). Often uses the Beginner Novice dressage tests, but organizers have a choice to also use USDF introductory tests. Scored the same as a regular horse trials. Organizers may often label the level with different names: e.g. tadpole, green bean, pre-Beginner Novice, etc. Starter is the standard terminology used in the official USEA Omnibus .

A recent show had this in the omnibus

Starter: 1100-1500 m @ 275 mpm - max height 2’5" .Water option. Tadpole - 1400-2000m @225mpm. Max height 2’3. Most at 2’.

Starter had maybe half the fences at the 2’ 5" height, although they were later in the course. Tadpole was 18 inches to 2’ 3" I have NEVER seen such big courses for Tadpole or Starter.

How can the USEA description of Starter not match the Omnibus?

Why have Starter at 2’ 5" and then BN at 2’ 7"? How would you address this on your event evaluation without sounding like an ass or do you?

I will confess to not closely reading the Omnibus, or at least not really believing it because it’s never happened before. There were no “tricks” beyond the fence height and width.

Everything else above Starter was in line, and the show ran very well.

[Janet]

“Starter” is not yet an official USEA/USEF level. If you look at the 2023 rule book, there are no specifications for “Starter”.

Until "Starter becomes an official level (I think it will for the 2024 competition year), “Starter” is just a “Test”, and the organizer can use whatever specifications they want.

Where did you find the specification you quoted as “USEA lists…”? It isn’t in the rulebook.

[Everydayriding]

Eventing Tests Introduce Riders to the Sport

[Janet]

Yep.

That is a 5 year old article about “Tests”, long before USEA thought about standardizing a “Starter” level.

It is given as an EXAMPLE of what could be offered as a “Test”

But organizers can also offer, as tests, 3-phase competitions with whatever specs they want, and they can call it whatever they want, as long they don’t use any of the names that are already defined in the rule book.

[Jump314]

@Everydayriding

Why have Starter at 2’ 5" and then BN at 2’ 7"? How would you address this on your event evaluation without sounding like an ass?

The difference in difficulty between levels is not just about fence height. Training is 3’3", Modified is 3’5", and Prelim is 3’7." The combinations and the intensity level of the course increase significantly between Training and Modified then again between Modified and Prelim.

I don’t think you have anything to address in your evaluation since the heights were clearly stated in the omnibus and you say you didn’t read it closely. I attended the Hoosier Horse Trials too and I thought it was well-organized, had educational courses at all levels, and even had a super fun and generous exhibitor party.

[Jersey_Fresh]

I’m going to say this as the biggest chicken shit out there, if 2” makes a difference at that level you aren’t ready to compete. They likely put that in the omnibus bc some don their fences measured a hair over. That’s what an event in this area had to do.

Around here, there are 2 events where started is 18” maybe a few 2’ and the rest are all 2’3 and like mini versions of the BN/N course with tables, brush etc (just not as wide either). There is little standardization out there for starter because it’s not recognized. Terrain also plays a role-a 2’3 fence may look bigger based on how it sits.

[Janet]

It is not unheard of for the specs at an event to differ from the rule book, even at the levels that ARE in the rulebook, as long as it is stated in the omnibus.

Earlier this year I was TD at an event where the Omnibus said “BN-1500 m @ 325 mpm, 2’9"max ht.” (instead of the 2’7" specified in the rule book. In reality there was ONE very straightforward fence at 2’9", and most of the rest of them were 2’3" or less.

[Everydayriding]

@Janet

But organizers can also offer, as tests, 3-phase competitions with whatever specs they want, and they can call it whatever they want, as long they don’t use any of the names that are already defined in the rule book.

Very helpful. Thank you.

[Jersey_Fresh]

Since your reply showed up in my email before you deleted it, read my post again, I didn’t call anyone a name, I referred to myself as a chicken shit.

The problem is not the rest of the shows, the problem is Champagne Run shows. Champagne run starter and BN are tiny compared to anything else in the area because if you make it super soft, you get more entries and that’s more money in the organizers pockets. I think some of the jumps are 12”? I ran starter at May Daze a few years ago coming back post partum and maybe one fence was 2’? IMO it sets riders up for failure because they do starter at MayDaze or CR then get a rude awakening running either starter or moving up to BN at one of the non CR shows and it’s a big jump and it’s a mess. I watched it happen at Midsouth. I’ve also seen my fair share of this happening at local CTs that set a “real” starter course. I won’t even get started on the complaints about timing bc she doesn’t time starter.

As for Hoosier being 2’5, the organizer posted several years ago that for some of her shows that they set the Omnibus to say this bc they had a jump or two that measured just over 2’3 and they wanted to make sure it was fair.

If I was going to submit an event evaluation wanting changed, I’d send one for CR/MD for being too soft for N and below.

[Rnichols]

Since starter (here we call it intro) isn’t a recognized level, I don’t think there’s any set standards the event has to adhere to. That being said, in my mind, starter is 2’3. If the event had put the jumps at 2’5 without saying anything, I’d be upset. But since it’s in the omnibus to expect slightly bigger jumps (combined with the fact starter isn’t a recognized level), I think the organizers did their due diligence.

All that being said, I would absolutely be upset / frustrated if I showed up to an event and the jumps were 2" bigger than they should be. Does the horse know the difference between 2’3 and 2’5? I don’t know, probably not. But it’s a mental mind f**k for me, knowing I practiced and prepared for a certain height and now all of a sudden they jumps are bigger than I thought. Personally, I don’t think it’s fair to say that if the jumps are only 2 inches bigger than expected you aren’t ready to compete at the level. It makes a difference to me, not because I can’t do it, but because I prepared for a certain height and now it’s changed. Yes, in theory, you should be schooling bigger than you show and the 2 inches shouldn’t make the difference, but still the fact of the matter is you walk in expecting a certain height and now it’s bigger. I guess it goes to a deeper problem and it’s that I have an issue with change in general lol. Anyway that’s kind of a moot point since the organizers did put what to expect in the omnibus.

[Jersey_Fresh]

Not only did they put it in the Omnibus, this particular show organizer made social media posts.

My point is that the issue should not be with this show, it’s starter was “normal” for this area. But with two of the bigger shows running the lower levels notoriously soft (starter being maybe 12-18” if that and untimed) one of which was the last event before the one in question, it makes the next event running starter at 2’3 a big jump. I would agree if you expected the starter course at CR, you would be upset at the course HHT offered. But look at the course is on XC course walk if you are interested-it’s nothing crazy and maybe one jump looks bigger than 2’3 (which was the reason why the organizer adjusted the omnibus for her shows to say 2’5-there were one or two jumps that measured over 2’3). I question the comment that most were over 2’3 or if they just looked bigger bc CR was so small.

I think the issue lies with the two soft shows leaving riders unprepared for the level at the next event but unless it’s recognized, there’s no standardization.

[Rnichols]

Oh I agree, that since it was in the omnibus (and sounds like also competitors were made aware of elsewhere) there’s not really much to be upset with.

I definitely thing it does competitors a disservice to have one event with extremely soft courses, and then it’s shocking when other events are run true to height. I’m in area VI and the venues I used to consider “soft” have definitely upped their game - I don’t think there’s necessarily an “easy” event, they all have their different challenges. I think what’s more of an issue here is we have dressage judges who score VASTLY different, so if you have the generous judge at one event you’re going to be in for a rude awakening with the tough judge. Anyway, I won’t even start on that because I could complain about it for hours, but it doesn’t change anything .

[Beam_Me_Up]

@Janet

It is not unheard of for the specs at an event to differ from the rule book, even at the levels that ARE in the rulebook, as long as it is stated in the omnibus.

Earlier this year I was TD at an event where the Omnibus said “BN-1500 m @ 325 mpm, 2’9"max ht.” (instead of the 2’7" specified in the rule book. In reality there was ONE very straightforward fence at 2’9", and most of the rest of them were 2’3" or less.

Janet, was that allowed because there is (I think) a 2" measurement allowance, or could you (in theory) run your recognized level at any specs? Like, could they have put BN at 2’11 or 3’3 in the rulebook and on course?

[Janet]

There used to be a 2" allowance for Show Jumping but not (at least officially) for cross country. But they took that 2" allowance away a couple of years ago.

I assume that the event needed to get prior approval from USEA (or USEF) to run BN at (nominally) 2’9", but I do not know for sure. If you really want to know, you should contact the USEA office, or the USEF Eventing group.

[Beam_Me_Up]

Thank you!
I was mostly just curious. I wasn’t aware that recognized levels could ever be (officially) run at a higher height than the spec.