On Thyro-L for life? Laminitis woes

[LSMarnell]

Hi everyone. My horse is a 16 y/o Arab and was diagnosed with laminitis in mid February. There was 6" of snow on the ground and he has always been a “middle-of-the-road” keeper. Not an air-fern by any means. We were initially treating him for an abscess, as laminitis in the dead of winter, on not an easy keeper never crossed my radar initially.

The vet came and diagnosed him with laminitis and of course we did the whole nine yards. Lilly pads, no hard feed, soaked hay, confinement, x-rays. Vet diagnosed him with EMS even though he was not fasted at all for the test. He supposedly tested negative for Cushings/ PPID and Lymes also. My vet has been impossible. I have so many questions about my horse and his prognosis for the long-term and he has been so rude to me. But, he is almost the only horse vet around, and the only one who does emergency barn calls.

My question is, he put him on Thyro-L and when I asked him how long he would have to be on it, he snapped at me “FOR LIFE!”
I’ve been reading that the most recent research indicates that if it’s not effective in 3-6 months for weight loss, it’s probably not doing anything. My horse is only about 75# overweight, and I have weight-taped him as loosing weight so far after 1 month on Thyro-L.

Any advice from the power of COTH?
I have him in Soft-Ride boots and ditched the lilly pads that were constantly falling off and he is comfortable. The vet had him on 3 grams of bute for over a month, and he is finally off that and staying comfortable. Vet shows zero concern about ulcers and brushed my questions off completely about that. Help.

[LSMarnell]

[2DogsFarm]

I have a mini on thyroid meds since last May. Prescribed after a minor laminitic episode.
Currently that med is Thyro-L, prior was same med, different manufacturer.

He has lost weight on it (in a Good way). It is a relatively cheap treatment, so I have no issue with a Rest Of Life regimen. Even in a horse-size dose it seems reasonable.
Thyro-L site has no warnings about side-effects unless horse is also hypertensive.

Vet also advised a switch to Triple Crown Senior & that along with the thryoid med has kept him sound.

[anon81364900]

Winter laminitis is very common, caused by insulin-related constricted blood flow, triggered by cold weather. Look ahead to next winter because your horse will be predisposed to relapse. You are going to need to keep his lower legs warm with leg wraps and maybe even hoof boots to keep his feet out of the snow.

I’m sorry your vet is such a jerk. You could get even by writing the nearest veterinary college to get them to encourage someone new to set up shop in your town. Sounds like they’d be guaranteed clients right off the bat! But seriously, maybe ask your farrier for advice, she or he will have seen a lot of laminitis cases.

[Snowdenfarm]

It is too bad that you do not have other vets to choose from. You are going to have to become our own “vet” for your horse. Join the ECIR IO Group. It will be overwhelming and you will think that you cannot possibly supply the information they are requesting for your case history nor that you will be able to absorb all of the information that they throw at you. But, you can and it is worth it. It is a volunteer group of veterinarians and equine nutritionists who have gathered case histories from thousands of laminitic horses around the world and are arguably the most up to date resource for laminitis. They are definitely the best source of free help and advice. Very welcoming.

[walkinthewalk]

1. I can tell you that my lameness vet would not have kept my 100+ pound overweight TWH on Thyro-L for life. I have always thought it is for weight loss and the horse needs gradually backed off once the weight does come off:)

My IR horse wasn’t even on Thyro-L. Fortunately for me, my lameness vet also dabbles in alternative medicines but will only mention them if the horse owner is open to them — which I was.

2. Do you have any all animal or general livestock vets in your area? If they’ve been around awhile, they can often know more than a specialized vet (equine). I know because the one in my county was raised on a cattle farm, and had horses before he ever played football at “Roll Tide” He is in his 50’s and twice as savvy on some horse issues as a horse vet.

These vets are very capable of drawing blood, sending it off to a lab, then reading the results:)

3. Comfortable or not, I would duct tape the lily pads to the hooves, then put the Soft Rides on; that’s what I did for a few years.

The pads and boots need to come off every day, cleaned and then put back on, using duct tape with the lily pads.

OR, you could buy Golds Gym or similar 12" X 12" snap together gym pads and cut your own pads - that’s what I did.

Cut them so they just cover the tip of the frog and stay at or inside the whiteline.

It’s a LOT of work but you are going to have to advocate for your horse, if you want it to rehab the way it is capable of:)

Best of luck, I do not envy you one bit because I’ve been there - standing on my head and washing the boots/pads for what seemed an eternity:)

[LSMarnell]

Isn’t the theory behind the lillypads to transfer more of the weight onto the frog? I guess I have always thought of the lillypads as dated technology but maybe I am wrong on that. My farrier recommended he be put on Styrofoam for 2 weeks and to get him off the lillypads. Then transition to boots or shoes. Vet and farrier are in complete disagreement on my horse and actually hate each other/cannot work together.

My horse was in so much pain for 15 days before he quit rocking/shifting his weight. I had made the decision to PTS because he wasn’t responding to the pain meds and was sweating and shaking in pain. The day before the appt he finially looked a little better.
Now I am doubting my decision honestly. I am working 7 days a week since I lost my job due to the pandemic, and had to start all over in a different industry. The horse is costing a fortune. I have a BO who has her own opinions on the care of my horse, and is getting pissy because we can’t find hay, at a time of year she is never looking for hay because the pasture is coming in…He can’t be on stall rest at current barn as BO’s horse will not go out alone and it’s just the two of them.
I have been searching for weeks for boarding that has a dry lot. In this area, “dry lots” are just mud pits without grass. And I’m talking 6-8" deep solid mud that doesn’t dry up much. I think I would PTS before I pay money for that.

[Alpha_Mare]

Hello LSM, I feel for you. I had a love-of-my-life mare with IR and then Cushings. It is a sadness that our horses can get this condition. From my experience, the horse will likely become more susceptible to this as he grows older. You could rehab him now, probably 4-6 months of hand walking as the hoof grows out. One thing, if you are going for rehab, is to not keep messing with the hoof as with 15 days of inflammation the laminae are probably pretty weak.

One thing that could possibly help is hoof casts, can be done barefoot or over shoes. I would not put over lily pads. I second your farrier’s advise for styrofoam. We used that successfully for my mare.

That said, it is your decision of whether this is time for PTS. As many posters have said previously, better a day too soon than a day too late. I made that decision when my mare couldn’t be out to pasture, even with a muzzle, due to quality of life concerns.

Best of luck to you.

[EmilyM]

i have a few on it for life.

my EMS horses are also on metformin (controls the absorption of sugar ). i grind it and mix with applesauce, and they do not get sores from it (metformin can cause mouth sores). Tubing it we got sores. I think binding it to apple sauce helps with the caustic aspect for some reason. when i grind it and the powder hits my face some, i can feel how it burns a bit.

worth asking about metformin. but the thyro-l plus metformin is pretty standard medication for EMS horses

[LSMarnell]

How are your EMS horses allowed to have applesauce? Even unsweetened it must contain as much sugar as a real apple?

[LSMarnell]

Thank you Snowdenfarm for the link to the ECIR group. I have learned a lot already just reading in there.

[EmilyM]

i use unsweetened and as little as I can. Multiple vets ok’d. And upon multiple rechecks, insulin levels were in normal range.

[MoonWitch]

DD’s welsh/TB cross is on it for life, so is our babysitter Shetland. Pony wears a muzzle all year long while turned out. We have found that both do better with six months on/six months off the Thyroid-L. We do blood test in both spring and fall before grass comes in or muzzle comes off of the honey. We also have had them both on Remission which seems to helps, since neither have had any lameness issues.

[anon81364900]

There is no shame about a PTS decision when a horse is uncomfortable and can’t be made comfortable with reasonable management that you can afford. Without a good vet/farrier team helping you, and with your work pressure / job insecurity, I would not blame you one bit for saying, this is too much.

[SharonA1]

I am also supportive of a potential decision to PTS. My thinking is that the horse may just have more pain in his future, laminitis being what it is. Maybe he would welcome freedom from pain and the almost certain prospect of future pain, at some time, somewhere. Maybe the universe is speaking.

Your COTH friends are behind you with whatever decision feels right, or right enough, for right for right now considering all other parameters. I don’t know that it’s easy to feel like we’re ever totally right about these things. “Right enough” is good enough.

[LSMarnell]

Thank you everyone for the replies.
My horse nickered to me tonight and I started bawling…
I have had the best times of my life with this horse after almost 30 years of horse ownership and oh my, I just can’t give up yet.
He is doing OK. Seems comfortable in his Soft Ride boots. He’s still getting soaked hay and he can move around in the paddock with his muzzle on ( There’s some grass in there.) He hasn’t tried to rip the muzzle off YET, and has been a gentleman so far.
I am going to stay the course for now. Try to work with my BO to keep him as safe as possible grass-wise while still allowing her horse to “see” him, keep him on the Thyro-L and watch his weight.
If this fails, and he has another episode, that’s going to be it. I have been with this BO for 9 years now and sometimes we butt heads, but she is a great friend and I know she adores horse.

Now horse is due for vacc’s and deworming and I am hesitant. Should I wait? Vet says its OK?

ETA: I really just want rabies.

[Snowdenfarm]

I stagger the vax and deworming. The vet gives rabies and leaves the rest with me. I spread out each vax and the deworming about two weeks apart.

[OzarksRider]

Be careful with the vaccinations. They can cause inflammation, and your horse doesn’t need more of that right now. IIWM I wouldn’t give any vaccines right now unless it was absolutely necessary. Not even rabies unless your horse is at high risk of being exposed. If you do have to vaccinate, at least stagger them a couple of weeks.

My horse reacted to the rabies vaccine the last time he had it. Nothing big, just seemed puny the next day. I’m sure it was the rabies vaccine because that was the only shot he had.

My horse had laminitis 6 years ago. He’s not on thyro, never has been. I got his weight down with big lifestyle changes—stalled at night, grazing muzzle during the day. He lost a couple hundred pounds over two years, and now he looks great. He’s sound, lives barefoot, and hauls me around all over in his hoof boots. It’s impossible to know how things will turn out for your horse, but I hope he will recover like mine did. I know how awful it is to see him hurting, not knowing how it will turn out. I’ve been there.

[NaturallyHappy]

I have a couple of thoughts that may or may not be helpful. I have two IR/PPID horses on Life Data’s Double Strength Farrier’s Formula. The Life Data people are very nice to talk to and may be of more help than your vet. I also give these horses Equinity Amino Acids. I attended a seminar on PPID and sat next to a cowboy/Paint horse guy who swore by it to help laminitic horses. I feel both of these horses Equinity now. The genetically predisposed horse was off of it for a short time and did become laminitic. We put him back on it and he improved pretty quickly. He was also shod w heartbar pads for 12 weeks. I don’t know if it really made the difference but he’s sound now barefoot. I wish you and your Arab the best!

[LSMarnell]

He is getting 1/3 C of the Life Data’s Double Strength Farrier’s Formula right now My farrier recommended it. I’ll look into the amino acids. Thanks.