One horse. One rider. 2 different coaches??

[Halt3]

I have a unique coaching situation that I have never encountered before and am looking for some feedback. I recently made arrangements for a new student (novice dressage rider) to start taking lessons on an older mare that recently came available when her previous part boarder moved on to another horse. It’s a basic level of dressage instruction: learn to ride leg-to-hand, establish contact/connection, understand the training scale, learn proper half halts, etc.

In return for me using the horse for this lesson, I have an arrangement with the owner. I do 2 training rides weekly to keep the horse tuned up and I look after the horse during the week (wrap her legs, pick her stall, get her out of her stall if she’s kept inside due to bad weather, etc). There is also another rider who does 1-2 very light rides on the horse each week. The owner does not ride any more.

The new student now wants to ride twice per week. I offered to schedule her on this horse but she said she wants to do her second lesson with the resident instructor at the barn. I later found out that she has spoken to the horse’s owner directly and they have agreed that she can use the same horse that I was teaching her on for these second lessons, because the other instructor doesn’t have a horse for her.

Does anyone have any experience with a student who takes lessons from 2 different coaches, but on the same horse? We have very different teaching styles, and I can see this becoming a problem. Plus it has “eau de riding school” written all over it.

Not to mention that I’m rather annoyed at the entire situation. Not only am I doing all the work to maintain the horse, but I am also the person who brought this student the opportunity on the horse in the first place, and she’s now transferring it to another coach. WWYD?

[Xanthoria]

Two separate things:

1. The use of the horse is down to the owner.

So the trade is: you earn money from a lesson using her horse, in return you train it 2x and look after it during the week. Student pays you $ and nothing to owner.

If other trainer is making $ of the horse too, that trainer should split horse care & training w you 50/50.

2. As for training with 2 trainers, depends on the student and the horse. I trained with two different ones 2x a week but I’ve been training forever, so I know what I want from each trainer and it’s never confused the horse because I pick and choose what I believe is best for horse. If you find horse and student are finding it hard/getting confused or argumentative, might be better to cut them loose. Then point 1 becomes moot.

[Scribbler]

How experienced is the second student?

If she is very new she might not even realize there is a possibility of getting confused or that teaching styles might vary.

If she is very experienced she might be able to pick and choose.

Would be worth having a mild chat with her. What are her goals for doing lessons with 2 different trainers? What will she do if she finds the instruction contradictory? You could explain that you have a specific curriculum and at some point she might need to choose one over another.

At our barn there are low level coaches that get the adult beginners and then typically one or two visiting coaches that are more accomplished but more expensive. Some people continue with both, some jump back and forth and then settle on one.

[Goforward]

Wait…you ride the horse TWICE a week and take care of it so someone else can ride it? Yes, you get paid for the lesson but…this is terrible math.
I’d walk away from that situation entirely.

[keysfins]

Two different coaches/trainers: yes, in fact we have three at my dressage barn all working as a team.

Usually clients will do the majority of lessons with one of the three, based on scheduling and time of day. (Each trainer has a part of the day to do training rides on client horses, and part of the day to teach.) But there are times when one trainer will work with a rider who generally rides in lessons with one of the other two. And any of the three can step in and warm up another rider at a show, for example, if there are time and ring conflicts.

I think what makes it work is that all three trainers are consistent in teaching foundation and basics, and have experience with green riders, adult ammies, up to GP and Pro riders. One trainer might ask for an update from the rider’s “usual” trainer, to catch up on what they’ve been working on, or any difficulties. And this team has been working together for a very long time.

The benefit that I have experienced is that each has a different teaching style while sticking to the dressage training scales.
One is very good about teaching the rider to feel the movement of the horse, asks what the rider is feeling, and also asks what the rider needs to do in response to, or in preparation for, a horse’s movement.
One is very good at teaching theory and the “why”: when the rider does “x”, why the horse does “y”, and when the horse does “a”, why the rider needs to do “b”.
And one has a combination of those, and is very verbal in teaching method.

So there is a method available if the rider is a visual learner, one who learns by feel, one who learns by hearing, one who learns by logical thinking, and so on.

Each of the trainers is very clear in teaching technique, and sometimes working with one of the ‘other’ trainers will allow the rider to understand something in a slightly different way–a different phrase, a different moment pointing out a movement or “what do you feel”. I, personally, love working with all three, and appreciate the sound base of instruction, as well as the different insights I gain from each.

Of course, the First and Second Commandmenta of Dressage are consistent: Forward, and Inside Leg to Outside Rein.

In the OP’s situation, this does not seem to be the case. It sounds like the differences may be too great, over who teaches the rider, potential differences in methods/program, and who benefits from caring for the horse. Agree with the other posters who asked the rider’s ability and why rider would like to ride with both. Communication seems to be missing. As well as who gets paid for what, and is it worth the OP’s efforts.

ETA: In my situation, one monthly training fee covers lessons with any of the three trainers, it is not pay-per-lesson with each. Big difference, I’m sure.

[mswillie]

I don’t have a problem with two different coaches in general, a student can get valuable input from both. In this case specifically, if I’m reading it correctly, you procured the horse. You ride the horse 2x/week to keep her tuned up. You pick her stall. You get her out for a little exercise in bad weather, you wrap her legs so for all intents and purposes you take care of the mare.

Now the student wants you to continue to maintain the mare so that she can take a lesson with another trainer, who I gather does none of the above maintenance.

I agree with the above poster who said it’s bad math. You’re being taken advantage of. I’d cut the whole mess loose.

[OneTwoMany]

@Halt @ X

I have a unique coaching situation that I have never encountered before and am looking for some feedback. I recently made arrangements for a new student (novice dressage rider) to start taking lessons on an older mare that recently came available when her previous part boarder moved on to another horse. It’s a basic level of dressage instruction: learn to ride leg-to-hand, establish contact/connection, understand the training scale, learn proper half halts, etc.

In return for me using the horse for this lesson, I have an arrangement with the owner. I do 2 training rides weekly to keep the horse tuned up and I look after the horse during the week (wrap her legs, pick her stall, get her out of her stall if she’s kept inside due to bad weather, etc). There is also another rider who does 1-2 very light rides on the horse each week. The owner does not ride any more.

The new student now wants to ride twice per week. I offered to schedule her on this horse but she said she wants to do her second lesson with the resident instructor at the barn. I later found out that she has spoken to the horse’s owner directly and they have agreed that she can use the same horse that I was teaching her on for these second lessons, because the other instructor doesn’t have a horse for her.

Does anyone have any experience with a student who takes lessons from 2 different coaches, but on the same horse? We have very different teaching styles, and I can see this becoming a problem. Plus it has “eau de riding school” written all over it.

Not to mention that I’m rather annoyed at the entire situation. Not only am I doing all the work to maintain the horse, but I am also the person who brought this student the opportunity on the horse in the first place, and she’s now transferring it to another coach. WWYD?

It probably depends on what you want out of the situation. If you feel the deal you struck with the owner is unfair, you can approach the owner and see if she is willing to rework the deal, i.e. you provide fewer services but still get to use the horse in one lesson.

That said, it sounds like you offered a lot to the owner to obtain permission to use this horse for one lesson. It might be helpful to understand more specifics of the situation.

Is the resident trainer more accomplished/senior in experience? Does she have a long-standing relationship with the owner? Etc.

[xQHDQ]

It does seem unfair that you’re doing all of the work and this other trainer is reaping the benefits. I would go to the owner. Tell her that now that Trainer B is benefiting from the horse, she should do some of the work. At the very least, on the day Trainer B teaches this student, you don’t have to worry about care - Trainer B cleans stall, wraps, etc. Above that may be difficult to negotiate but would be fair.

[alibi_18]

Having two trainers is not the problem here.

You need to talk to the owner as this situation isn’t fair to you at all.

Currently, the deal is : X Trainer get to give 1 lesson on horse in exchange of weekly care + 2 tune up sessions.

If the other trainer wants to use the horse, same deal should apply. Why would the owner allow this instructor to make money from the horse without any of your commitment?

If NewStudent wants to deal directly with owner, she can take the deal over, or pay half board, and pick whomever s/he wants as trainer. (You, then, wouldn’t have to care for the horse or do training rides.)

Please, don’t continue this deal.

[Halt3]

Thanks for the feedback. The owner has told me that whoever the rider wants to take lessons with is up to the rider. And while I agree with that, it doesn’t account for the fact that I am taking care of the horse. I hadn’t thought of it in terms of “bad math” but I guess that’s a pretty good description.

I think my viewpoint got clouded when my nose went out of joint… I brought the owner a rider for her horse when she was looking for someone, and I have worked with and looked after this horse for quite a few years with her previous part boarder. Maybe I had an expectation of loyalty or support from the owner.

I also believe that 2 coaches will cause confusion for this rider as she’s quite novice. Especially with 2 completely different coaches. If the trainers all work with the same methodology or if it’s a head trainer/assistant situation then that would be different.

But “bad math” is a more objective way of looking at it.

[meupatdoes]

I would not expect any loyalty or give a rat’s patootie about the rider riding with other trainers, as long as the other trainers promote kind riding. Nobody owns anybody else’s riding. As a student myself I ride with several trainers. As a trainer myself I have no problems and in fact ENCOURAGE people who ride with me to take lessons with other trainers as well.

The part that is not fair here is the bad math. If you have to do this extra work in order to get to teach your lesson, then something more equitable needs to be worked out than that the other trainer just gets the horse for free.

[Bogie]

@meupatdoes

I would not expect any loyalty or give a rat’s patootie about the rider riding with other trainers, as long as the other trainers promote kind riding. Nobody owns anybody else’s riding. As a student myself I ride with several trainers. As a trainer myself I have no problems and in fact ENCOURAGE people who ride with me to take lessons with other trainers as well.

The part that is not fair here is the bad math. If you have to do this extra work in order to get to teach your lesson, then something more equitable needs to be worked out than that the other trainer just gets the horse for free.

I agree. Not fair for you to do the work to support the horse so the other owner can teach, but I’ve also ridden with several trainers. Sometimes, for me, it was helpful to learn a different approach or hear something described in a different way. You cannot control who someone rides with, but you can approach the owner about letting the horse be used for a lesson if the other trainer isn’t providing support.