One Rein Struggles & Anxiety - Mysterious Hind End Issues

[trakehners]

@Ottbaxel

I am debating taking new rads to check the angle, but I’ve just spent soooo much money on him lately.

FWIW, I was told to not bother taking new rads for six months minimum after we started making adjustments to my horse’s feet to give them time to actually change. It does require some trust in your farrier and their competence to wait that long but you’re not likely to see any meaningful change internally (i.e., not artificial correction from wedges or whatever may have been added, but what you have with bare feet) after one or two cycles.

Your horse’s feet definitely look more upright to me with this farrier’s trim as opposed to the original one. There’s still some definite bullnosing happening (a telltale sign of NPA) but that takes time and new hoof growth to go away as the internal angles correct.

Plus, if there is any suspensory strain, time not doing anything major won’t hurt. We got to go back to work immediately with the wedges primarily because my horse had been doing non-ridden rehab of his suspensories for nearly four months. I don’t know how it would’ve gone in terms of soundness if he had the fresh strain and I was trying to work him after changing all the alignment in his legs and feet.

[Ottbaxel]

Well I am officially beyond stressed.

Farrier came back to change up the front feet (he didn’t do the fronts last week because he was so bad for the hinds and it was getting really late) and this horse has never had a problem having his front feet done.

My vet was going to sedate him anyways because he was so bad for the hinds last week, but I guess the timing didn’t work out so he wasn’t sedated. I just got a text that the horse freaked out, broke the crossties, hit his face and gave himself a bloody nose, and now I need to be present for all further farrier appointments.

I don’t know what to do. To be clear, based on the horse’s actions this is totally a fair request and I understand. But I don’t know why he is just getting worse and worse, and I also can’t be there for farrier appointments because of my job.

I’m kind of screwed at this point-what do I do?? He is starting to cover himself in sores too, presumably because he is leaning on walls and laying down a lot. He is clearly just so uncomfortable. I don’t really have any more money to spend on him after all I’ve done, but I worry that if I rehome him he won’t end up in any better of a situation. I am at a complete loss at this point.

[fivestrideline]

First, I’m so so sorry. I’m guessing the vet wanted more drugs than a tube of dorm or ace injection you could have had them do at the farm? Unless he did get sedated and blew through it?

I won’t lie, this seems to be escalating quickly. Will he let you do all the farrier “things”? Pick up his feet high, stretch them forward, bang on his hooves? Did this start with a particular farrier? Have you been there to hold for THIS farrier ever? I’m asking because I’m wondering if there is something else going on. Wasn’t he barefoot until recently?

Again I’m sorry. Maybe the farrier is rough with him and you need someone else. Or there are options like boots and pads over a good trim - trims take less time and don’t require nailing. Or glue ons, if it’s just the nailing process that he hates.

[Ottbaxel]

No, he’s never been barefoot. Trust me, it feels like it’s escalating quickly too!!

I think dorm or ace would have worked-I only have ace on hand though, and staff doesn’t do IM injections. I think that’s what the vet would have done if they had been there to do it.

It seems to be the actual act of stretching his leg out and holding that’s the problem. When I first bought him, he would pull back a couple of times for his front legs when asked to put them out on the stand, but then stand fine. I worked with him doing stretches nearly every day, and my farrier noted that the problem had gone away after just a couple of shoeings last spring. Never had an issue with the hinds.

The last time he got shod, he was bad about his hinds. He pulled back and threatened to kick a few times, and was moving away from wherever my farrier put the stand. I was there for that appointment because I had the week off work. Farrier noted that he had never had this issue, so the horse must be really sore this go around. We got through it without sedation, and I was hopeful that the wedge shoes we put on would help him so the next appointment he’d seem better.

Last week he got his hinds done with the new farrier, as my old farrier wasn’t taking off enough toe like I had asked to start fixing the NPA issues. The horse was really bad for him and kept kicking, but my vet was there and sedated him. It seems like he is just getting more and more sore, while the shoe jobs are getting better and better - I mean, the last hind shoe change was exactly what I asked for and you could visibly see the angle of the hoof was better. I’m stumped.

[fivestrideline]

Ugh. That’s tough - no smoking gun.

I’ll ask a few more questions just as things to think about:

• what kind of pads/packing/pour in are you using? What kind of shoe? It may be too much pressure and making him sore, especially if he went from regular open heeled shoes to a typical wedge package.
• was he reactive from the start of the appointment, or did it pop up when putting on shoes, or after one foot, or anything else?
• FWIW, you can do oral Ace or Dorm

I wonder if the new angles have set off something higher up that he was compensating for…

[Ottbaxel]

@fivestrideline

was he reactive from the start of the appointment, or did it pop up when putting on shoes, or after one foot, or anything else?

I’m not sure, I’ll have to ask since I wasn’t there!

@fivestrideline

I wonder if the new angles have set off something higher up that he was compensating for…

This is my exact worry. I have been pondering the possibility of him having some sort of chronic suspensory issue that we just haven’t found because there has never been heat or swelling (his legs are VERY tight), but at this point to me it seems further up and it doesn’t seem to be one-sided either.

Right now his shoe is a heart bar shoe, with a much more trimmed toe, so there is no wedge and no real packing or pour-in. He just got those on Friday though, and beforehand he was in a wedged shoe with (i think a leather) pad for frog support. I would have thought wedging him up a bit would help the soreness, unless it is truly exacerbating some other issue.

[fivestrideline]

@Ottbaxel

I have been pondering the possibility of him having some sort of chronic suspensory issue that we just haven’t found because there has never been heat or swelling (his legs are VERY tight),

FWIW, my horse with a suspensory issue never had heat or swelling or anything. Cold, tight legs, always.

@Ottbaxel

it doesn’t seem to be one-sided either

Chronic PSD is very commonly bilateral, but you could have some SI issue going on. Or both.

@Ottbaxel

Right now his shoe is a heart bar shoe, with a much more trimmed toe, so there is no wedge and no real packing or pour-in. He just got those on Friday though, and beforehand he was in a wedged shoe with (i think a leather) pad for frog support.

Caveat: I’m not a farrier and I don’t play one on TV. I’ve just been down this road with one of mine.

Anyway, okay this COULD be your problem. A heart bar is a very rigid structure across the frog - there is little to no relief of pressure during the flight of the foot. The horse is designed to have 0 pressure when the foot is off the ground, and a heart bar (and some other styles of shoe) clamp pressure onto the foot. This can make them super sore.

A leather pad is maybe better, but depending on the packing you may have had a similar problem. Pour in is very hard, even the softest kind, and can exert pressure on the frog and sole like a shoe. A pad plus really soft DIM, Magic Cushion, or just Artimud can work for the ones that can’t tolerate a harder setup. That’s what I’ve had to do when starting out with two of mine.

It could also be that the reduced toe came with the new farrier cutting into the live sole - if he didn’t have much sole there he may be standing on very little over the sensitive corium. That would make any horse ridiculously painful!

All this to say, you may just need to switch to a composite shoe or a different pad setup and this gets fixed immediately. Or he may have PSD or some other issue higher up. You won’t know without diagnostics or trial and error, I’m afraid. Taking him barefoot and using boots could work, it’s often the fastest way to improve a foot, but it’s a lot for an owner to handle. And you’d still need a good trim.

Ugh. Again. I’m so sorry. Make sure you take care of yourself and don’t let this send you spiraling. You’ll find a way to get him at least pasture sound while you figure everything out, I’m sure!

[Ottbaxel]

Ugh I hope so. I just don’t know anymore. I have never in my life been this stressed out about a horse before. I have no idea how to even get him shod if I’m required to be there for the shoeing.

Sometimes I wonder if I should just humanely euth him. I don’t know.

[fivestrideline]

If they can’t shoe him and you can’t be there, try a barefoot trim and pasture rest. Pull his shoes, kick him out, maybe see if you can take time off for the next farrier visit for a trim so you can be there and see what happens in person. Have oral sedatives on board.

There is nothing wrong with taking a huge step back. Retire him until spring, keep up with the trims (I’ll bet he will be fine for trims. And if it’s actually your farrier being a jerk to the horse, you’ll find out), stop hemorrhaging money into him for a while. Take a breather and see what Dr Green can do.

If you try retirement and he continues to spiral outside of farrier visits, talking about euth isn’t extreme.

[ClaireBear_NZ]

Has he typically been fine for the farrier/has the farrier changed? My farrier retired and I had a new guy in, one of mine who has historically been fine was an absolute nightmare for him. I changed farriers again (farrier was awkward to schedule and insisted on bringing his dog who would chase my birds even when I politely asked him not to) and from the first visit, horse was back to normal and falls asleep to be done. No idea why because the trim/shoeing looked good and angles on xray etc looked great and he was sound.

[luvmyhackney]

Some horses don’t like certain farriers. My perfect pony to get trimmed wouldn’t let one farrier touch him. He’s normally trimmed in a halter in an aisle way and farrier doesn’t even use a lead rope. He offers which foot he would like next.

[fivestrideline]

Agree. That’s why I pointed out a few times that maybe OP could be there for the next appointment to see what’s going on. Trying a new farrier all together would also be an idea, with drugs on hand of course.

If the horse is hurting and wanting his foot back and/or the farrier is cranking up legs too high for too long, any horse might get fidgety and start pulling back. If he then gets in big trouble, that’s just going to escalate the issue. BTDT, spent the time fixing the issue…

[Ottbaxel]

He started to get bad with the last farrier before we had the new one out, so I don’t think it’s the farrier. It’s corresponded pretty clearly with his hind end being sore and getting worse. I can see how the new farrier may have tried to pull his leg back or fight against him pulling though-that explanation does make sense so maybe that happened.

What I am 95% sure of though, is this guy was really patient with him. My vet really likes him, and my trainer was in the barn during the whole ordeal and told me afterwards that he was super kind and very patient with my horse, so I don’t think he would have done anything like punish him.

My next week off work will be about five weeks after this shoeing, so I will just plan on having him done then so I can be there…for the rest of winter when my work gets very busy though I really can’t be there for the appointments.

[Ottbaxel]

Well the good news is my vet swung by and looked at the horse again and he seemed a little bit sounder - still a little funky in his left hind but not as badly. He has also had this weird front end lameness that is only noticeable under saddle. Thankfully after the last shoeing, he seemed to be better on that foot under saddle at a brief trot last night. Vet told me to ride him just at walk trot for a week and see what happens.

I’m glad he looks a little bit better, and I’m sure he has to work through his body a little bit to figure out how he can move with these angles improving, but I don’t actually have much hope for the horse anymore in general. Ugh!

[TWH_Girl]

Apologies if some of this has been mentioned as I don’t recall all details…

Is your horse on Equioxx? In addition to sedation, some pain control would probably help with the farrier work and overall.

If there is concern about suspensory issues, do an u/s so you can rule in/ out.

If he is tight muscled, maybe there’s a component of vitamin E deficiency or muscle issue. If you haven’t run his E levels that could answer some questions. Maybe do 5000iu of natural E and some magnesium as well.
Again, sorry if you’ve done some of this or it’s repetitive. I’ve been trying to follow along and I can feel your angst. BTDT and it sucks.

[Ottbaxel]

@TWH_Girl Yeah, unfortunately we’ve covered all but the suspensory issues (that’s probably the next step if I even decide to go any further. I’m tired and at this point I just don’t want to deal with any of this anymore)

He is on equioxx, tested negative for PSSM, tested vitamin E levels (normal range but I supplemented with vit E and magnesium for a couple of months just in case, no difference) so I don’t really know how else to help him. Tested for Lyme as well in case that’s a cause, also negative. He was on robaxin for a bit, but that didn’t seem to help at all either.

After a couple of days of walk trot, he doesn’t feel any different to me than before. I’m going to give it a few more days in case maybe he just needs to work through it now that his feet are different, but I really don’t think he’s better enough to try and get him working again unfortunately.

[fivestrideline]

Ugh I’m so sorry. You really have tried so hard and it’s ridiculously frustrating. BTDT.

If he were mine, I’d either ultrasound the suspensories (it’s not expensive, but still several hundred dollars), or just turn him out until next year.

Hugs. And jingles.

[Ottbaxel]

@fivestrideline

If he were mine, I’d either ultrasound the suspensories (it’s not expensive, but still several hundred dollars), or just turn him out until next year.

Maybe I will ultrasound them…I just don’t know anymore. I need to think on it.

The added issue now of him being too sore for the farrier is really adding to my stress about it. I can’t be there for every shoeing, not with the deadlines I have every day for my job. Not to mention, this new shoe setup was massively, massively expensive compared to a regular shoeing and I can’t see myself paying that every 6 weeks.

[Bluey]

@Ottbaxel

Maybe I will ultrasound them…I just don’t know anymore. I need to think on it.

The added issue now of him being too sore for the farrier is really adding to my stress about it. I can’t be there for every shoeing, not with the deadlines I have every day for my job. Not to mention, this new shoe setup was massively, massively expensive compared to a regular shoeing and I can’t see myself paying that every 6 weeks.

When our old horse became too unstable for the farrier, our vet said that was one consideration for euthanasia.
That can be an indication of how bad the horse is really getting, that instability and pain impacting his quality of life more than just with the farrier.

[fivestrideline]

Absolutely. I would caveat my previous statement about turning him out and say I would make him go barefoot unless he was completely unsound doing so.

Barefoot turn them out till next year. See what you have. Hopefully Some preloaded dorm would get him comfy and happy with just trims since they’re much quicker and unlikely to cause problems. That said if he can’t happily get a trim, then I would definitely be considering quality of life.