That’s interesting that he’s better jumping! My guy is much, much worse over fences. He’s super super game for jumping so I think it’s a mix of excitement and anxiety for the jumping.
It’s also probably physically hard for him. A lot of times what we call “excitement” is pain/stress, plus a misunderstanding of the task at hand. Until a horse can WTC and easily navigate trot and canter poles on the lunge and under saddle, jumping is going to be physically difficult and likely to just cause anxiety and rushing (which lots of people interpret as “excitement”).
Also, lots of us ride completely differently when there are jumps involved, for whatever reason. This was one of my biggest struggles as a teen.
This isn’t a rag on you OP! It’s very common to see horses that aren’t comfortable and rideable on the flat being asked to jump around. There’s a difference between popping over some trot obstacles/sending a horse through a jump chute and asking a horse to “jump” the way most people define it. Most horses that rush or get hard to ride over fences are doing so because they can’t physically do the task or don’t understand what is being asked. Usually both.
3 Likes
Think he may have gotten a bit booty sore from the past few days-last night on the lunge he didn’t want to pick up the left lead at all which is unlike him. He did pick it up eventually and then after a circle and a LOT of praise I called it a day. I think today is going to be just a massage and grazing day for him, so time to do a lot more research into the Masterson Method!!
2 Likes
You’re on the right track. Give a few days off for the changes to settle. Especially when they are working through tension or tight muscles, I like to work two days on two days off or three days on two days off. Masterson work in between.
You’ll start seeing improvements in no time.
Somewhere I have an entire thread on this, that starts right from the start (pre-diagnosis) with the issues I was having and then updates throughout. There were some competing issues at play so took a while to disentangle hoofs vs PSSM2 vs nutritional imbalances.
For PSSM2, the main signs were:
- Always heavy on the left rein
- A lot of canter challenges (rushing / bolting, swapping behind and “bunny hopping”, giraffing, falling in on canter)
- Recurring ulcers despite no environmental stressors we could identify
- Worsened in shoulder seasons as temps changed - with spookiness and bucking that went beyond “spring / fall sillies”
- Hard muscles and challenges balancing when hind feet were being picked (at first wrote it off as baby weakness)
- In worst periods, toe dragging behind and would rush down hills out on the trails to avoid loading hind end
We xrayed all over, tried Adequan and joint supplements, but we noticed most improvement with lifestyle changes (12+ hours turn out, increasing magnesium & vit E, adding amino acids, consistent 5-6x a week rides) that eventually we diagnosed through treatment that she was PSSM2.
We still work her nearly daily, but I adjust my rides to what her body is telling me she can handle that day. A big temp swing late last week triggered a mild flare so this weekend we just hacked and did stretchy work in the ring. She’s back feeling good again so we resumed normal work yesterday.
The biggest indicator of the PSSM2 was the shiftiness of it…it seemed to be muscular because it wasn’t consistent enough in presence or severity to be an injury / joint issue (and we had ruled out Lyme).
Oh last thing that was weird about her – she seemed to have limited immune function. She was often getting colds, over-reactions to cuts (swelling, slow to heal, cellulitis) and frequent scratches infections that often needed SMZs (despite dry turn out and good care)…once we got PSSM2 managed that has almost entirely disappeared.
2 Likes
Is it this one?
1 Like
Interesting! I am wondering if this could be my guy as well. At the very least, it’s worth changing his diet around a bit to see if any changes are noticeable. What did you put her on for Vitamin E? I’ve heard so many conflicting pieces of info on Vitamin E - that it needs to be liquid to work, or that Elevate is fine, etc. so I’m not sure where to start with that.
Not who you asked but I’ll answer anyway 
Natural E is more bioavailable - meaning to get the same benefit you have to feed more of the synthetic. Best to pick a natural E, in whatever form your horse will eat, and start around 2000IU+ if you’re just trying to supplement and are feeding a commercial grain or balancer. You may need more if your horse is eating only a V/M supplement, or is getting a lower quality feed that doesn’t have much E in it. If you’re specifically addressing an issue, you can feed more or reach for liquid natural E (the most bioavailable), but these are not cheap or always palatable.
Santa Cruz E powder and pellets are some of the cheapest horse specific options, and I’ve always had horses eat it. Smartpak makes a natural E pellet that’s more expensive, but it goes on sale all the time for cheap! Also very palatable and easy to use. Some people use the human gel caps, but I’ve never had luck with those myself. They usually end up a mushy mess on the bottom of the bucket, and popping them open every time isn’t practical for me.
As with anything, check the actual IU not just the serving size to see what is most cost effective. For example, Smartpak’s E is 2500IU/serving at 1 scoop/day. Santa Cruz is 8000IU/serving at 2 scoops/day. Very confusing
1 Like
Yes that’s it!
1 Like
I use a human gel capsule of natural E from amazon that is 1000iu per pill. I order on subscription and right now she’s on 5000iu per day.
I’ve used the liquid Vit E but it was a mess and I honestly felt like a lot got wasted. I also have used Elevate but felt better bang for buck with the human liquid gel caps: more targeted iu’s, clean, easy storage, and price competitive
2 Likes
A couple favorite under saddle exercises for straightening asymmetrical sensitive horses:
-
At the rail tracking in the direction they counterbend, ride shoulder-fore or shoulder-in with the front end pointing towards the wall (so shoulder-out, I guess) down the long side. Don’t harass them if they want to tip their neck towards the rail. Then at the corner, ask them off your inside leg to straighten and give a moment of bend toward the difficult direction. Resume shoulder out after only a few steps and repeat at the next corner. After several repetitions add another straightening for a few steps in the middle of the long side. Generally the weak hind leg is the one opposite the bulging side, so they get sick of pushing with it on shoulder-in quickly and realize the straightening is easier, reducing their desire to brace without having to arm wrestle them for the inside rein.
-
In a large arena or field, proceed on a straight line well away from the rail or fence, picking an object in the distance to head for. The goal is to stay on the straight line with both reins completely loose and both of your legs neutral. If any part of the horse’s body falls off the line, correct, send him forward firmly, and return to neutral quickly. When the horse understands his job is to keep himself on the line in all 3 gaits you’ll have a much less resistant starting place for practicing flexions, because a lot of horses brace/counterbend so habitually on the rail of the arena that they are fighting you before you even apply an aid.
3 Likes
X2!
And easily sourced, bioavailabile and horses just eat it out of the grain, no hesitation.
I’m surprised no one has suggested
ECVM. The asymmetry in the shoulders could be a sign. I had a young mare with it.
Another thing that I think is worth noting and may or may not be related-this horse is girthy. I figured it was an ulcer issue or perhaps back soreness, but he has just been treated for ulcers as noted, and his back is palpating quite well (teeny bit reactive around the SI and that is it).
I stretch his front legs before tacking up by standing in front of him, picking his leg up, grabbing behind the knee and gently pulling it forward. Then I grab the hoof and stretch the whole leg straight. He used to struggle with this, but now he relaxes into it and stretches really well. I girth him up slowly, starting with one hole on each side then I’ll grab my boots, go up another hole, grab my bridle, go up another hole etc so I’m not just yanking it up quickly.
Once it is tightened enough, I’ve been trying to pick up one leg at a time, bend at the knee and pull it forward again a little bit to make sure his skin isn’t pinching under the girth. He pretty much refuses-he won’t pick up his leg at all, then will walk sideways away from me in the aisle. When I do finally get him to lift it, many times he will hold it up himself and refuse to stretch or slam his foot back down (frequently hitting his other foot in the process) as he wants to keep his feet super close together. It’s so strange!
His saddle has been professionally fitted as recently as a month ago (this is something he’s always done before & after saddle was fit), and he has a shoulder relief girth with sheepskin as well. So, I don’t think his saddle or girth is pinching him. Maybe just some sort of general sternum problem?
I’m not super well versed in ECVM, but I did just briefly read an article on it. My other gelding has a bone spur and arthritis between his C6 & C7, so I’m familiar with some other neck problems. I would certainly not rule out that possibility right now, but don’t want to jump to that yet since it seems to be pretty detrimental to ridden careers from what I read.
Also-I just put him on Vitamin E & Selenium. I might throw him on my other gelding’s magnesium as well, but I want to add one thing at a time right now to be able to tell if anything makes a difference.
1 Like
Has he always used this? I was using a shoulder relief girth on my new gelding but he actually hated it, I discovered he prefers a plain straight girth.
1 Like
No - I initially just had him in a cheap straight fleece girth (I think lettia) but we noticed last year that as soon as we tacked him up, he would walk off lame. I ended up trying both the stubben equisoft girth and the TSF stretchtech (purchased the TSF and the stubben was given to me for free), and he doesn’t walk off funny anymore. But he is certainly still really unwilling to lift his legs the minute I tighten the girth.
Not sure whether this is girth related or he’s just sore in his shoulders and tightening up the girth makes him uncomfortable.
1 Like
Do you have a surcingle you can try girthing him up with for a few days? Not just once - maybe do his lunging while wearing a surcingle (one with pads or with a spine relief half pad/two bathing sponges under it to keep it off the spine)?
My thinking is if it’s your saddle he may react differently to a surcingle. If it’s the girth or something else, he should not show a change in behavior. A bareback pad could also work.
4 Likes
great idea! I tried throwing the saddle on and lifting his feet without the girth to see if it was just sitting tight on his shoulders, but that doesn’t really help much since a saddle isn’t super tight on the shoulders anyways until the girth is on and tightened.
It shouldn’t be the saddle given how recently I had it fitted, but who knows!
2 Likes
