Ooops - Beezie Madden.........

[ImmortalSynn]

[QUOTE=BelleOfTheBall;6482505]
Can anyone point out to me where she used the crop in her right hand after the stop? I just watched it several times and only see her use it as soon as she stops behind her left leg, and again behind her left leg 2 strides after cantering away. Doesn’t seem too excessive (or “whacking the everloving sh!t”) to me.[/QUOTE]
Seven strides+, for one thing.

And difference of opinion-- I’ve never known of a need to raise a crop to head level (or even use your shoulder) for contact, usually a flick of the elbow/wrist will do. Plenty of horsemen/horsewomen call the aforementioned “the first sign of human frustration, not equine discipline.” No one, from pony clubbers to FEI-level competitors, is immune from moments of frustration causing outbursts. I happen to feel the same. If you disagree, you’re of course entitled to do so.

[Jewels09]

[QUOTE=jumpingmaya;6482416]
Interesting that no one has brought forward that just “maybe”… the horse was over-prepped… the mare jumped a foot over each fence… and was note quite “right”…

To me- that screams a horse that was over-prepped… WAY too scared to potentially touch something- or even get close to it!

Just a thought… Oh, and please… don’t give the “it doesn’t happen that way…” or “she would never do that”…

It’s just the reality of it, most of them do it before big classes…[/QUOTE]

Glad someone pointed out the elephant in the room. Mare was way too prepped. I always thought the mare was careful but not top scope. Don’t know why they got her so careful. Blame BM, JM, and GM. Their decision in training was not the right one

[Tackpud]

@ImmortalSynn;6480473

I’m not foolhardy enough to question Beezie’s riding skill or anything like that, because we all know that she’s proven that a thousand times over…

…but I think you hit on the reason that there’s so many raised eyebrows out there, whether people will say/admit it or not. After the second refusal, she used her crop hard behind her right leg. Totally and completely understandable.

But then, a few seconds later, she switched hands, raised the whip clear above her shoulder (almost to head level) and whacked the everloving sh!t outta the mare behind her left leg. This was done several strides after the mare had already begun cantering away from the fence, and several seconds after already disciplining her on the rightward side.

Go back and watch the video again. Beezie had the crop in her left hand throughout the entire ride before the combination and afterwards. She hit the mare one time behind the saddle on the left side immediately after she stopped and again once as the mare turned away from the fence. Neither was on the right side and neither was long enough after the stop for it to be unrelated to the stop in the mare’s mind. As far as raising the crop to her head - that’s no where near how high her arm was. The intention was to reprimand the horse for a misbehavior and she did. She did not lose her temper and beat the “everloving sh!t outta the mare”. Hitting a horse behind the leg is the appropriate punishment for refusal to go forward. Beezie is an amazing rider and horsewoman and I, for one, would never question her judgement, not accuse her of lashing out with emotion. She is a professional first and foremost who puts her horses before anything else in her life.

[BelleOfTheBall]

[QUOTE=Tackpud;6482758]
Go back and watch the video again. Beezie had the crop in her left hand throughout the entire ride before the combination and afterwards. She hit the mare one time behind the saddle on the left side immediately after she stopped and again once as the mare turned away from the fence. Neither was on the right side and neither was long enough after the stop for it to be unrelated to the stop in the mare’s mind. As far as raising the crop to her head - that’s no where near how high her arm was. The intention was to reprimand the horse for a misbehavior and she did. She did not lose her temper and beat the “everloving sh!t outta the mare”. Hitting a horse behind the leg is the appropriate punishment for refusal to go forward. Beezie is an amazing rider and horsewoman and I, for one, would never question her judgement, not accuse her of lashing out with emotion. She is a professional first and foremost who puts her horses before anything else in her life.[/QUOTE]

This. Exactly what I was trying to say, only much better. Completely agree that Beezie was not out of line and she handled the situation appropriately.

[ImmortalSynn]

[QUOTE=Tackpud;6482758]
Go back and watch the video again.[/QUOTE]
I would suggest likewise, if you’re truly stating the following…

@Tackpud;6482758

that’s no where near how high her arm was.

Sorry, you’re dead wrong here. Downloaded the video via SoThink, then slowed it to less than 100fps, then froze frame, just to check. Can VERY clearly see how high it goes during its upswing.

@Tackpud;6482758

Hitting a horse behind the leg is the appropriate punishment for refusal to go forward.

I’m aware, just as you should be that: there’s a thin and often subjective threshold between discipline and pain, even for an instant. People will disagree where that is-- we obviously do. What’s the point in perpetually repeating it?

@Tackpud;6482758

Beezie is an amazing rider and horsewoman

No one has said nor implied otherwise.

[MHM]

Oh, please.

She tapped the horse twice behind her left leg immediately after it stopped. She didn’t even turn her stick around.

I’ve seen kids do as much with a stick after a refusal in the pony ring, never mind at the Olympics. It is just as appropriate in either place to correct a horse after a stop.

[mckenna310]

Unpopular opinion… but those stops were all on Beezie. She got in super deep the first time, pulled out, then had the exact same ride the second try, and there was no way that little mare could jump out in two. And then to smack her for it… sorry but I was put off. Mistakes happen but don’t act like it was the horse’s fault.
Then she says it happened bc the mare was a little too impressed by the whole thing. No, the mare is brave as a lion, you messed up. I love Beezie but I’m disappointed.

[FineAlready]

Are some of you seriously suggesting that Beezie’s horse was poled (or similar) in the schooling ring at the Olympic Games? You don’t think that would have been a bit obvious?

Sometimes, horses really DO get impressed by certain jumps, certain rings, etc. It happens. Even to very experienced horses, which this horse is not (relatively speaking).

Some of you really need to come off it. I mean, what happened to the Canadian horse that lost its mind in Dressage, then? Presumably they were cattle prodding that one in the butt before it went in the ring to make its movement more “expressive”? Because no horse would ever just spook and do something unpredictable…and…horse-like…not at the Olympic Games!

[Hauwse]

I would just like to point out that Via Vola is not in any way inexperienced. The mare is 14 now and 4 years from mandatory retirement. As phenomenal as that little mare is, they had hoped it would be Simon who qualified, did not work out that way.

Bottom line is that any horse on any given day can throw a wrench into your plans, watch enough and you will see the best of the best do it time and time again( Part of why you can drop one in the competition ); they are not cars, they will have their off days regardless of preparation, ride or importance of the event, the mere fact that the combination qualified says all that needs to be said of the horse, the rider, the training and the overall horsemanship of the entire Madden team.

The bigger question for me is how is it that both the US and Canada managed such poor results overall. These two teams should always be deep in the hunt come day two, and this time both teams were not much more than place holders.

When you compare the horse flesh representing each team it was a forgone conclusion where all the teams would be. One that GM has been talking about for years; breeding and development, not riders.

[HRF_Second_Chance]

And sorry but does the horse not have EYES of it’s own? A brain of it’s own power to think “hey we might be a bit deep here, I’m going to make some of my OWN adjustments to get us through.” Don’t we teach our horses to be adjustable and to be part of the team?

After the first stop the mare knew what it was in for, it just lost some confidence and that was that. She came back yesterday and did a pretty good job from what I hear. I didn’t get the coverage because my DVR wasn’t set for all day.

And I remember seeing her use the stick MAYBE twice and thought that was the first time I’ve ever seen her stick a horse. Poor Beezie and Via Volo. One bad round and this is what happens. Good to see so many people rally to her defense instead of getting pitchforks and torches.

[ponysize]

I just find it hilarious reading these threads where you have folks who actually think they know what Beezie and the horse are thinking and what they did or didn’t do wrong when they have probably never jumped beyond a 3’ ammy course if that.

So glad you guys are here to win medals for us from behind your computers.

[eclipse]

@Tackpud;6482758

Go back and watch the video again. Beezie had the crop in her left hand throughout the entire ride before the combination and afterwards. She hit the mare one time behind the saddle on the left side immediately after she stopped and again once as the mare turned away from the fence. Neither was on the right side and neither was long enough after the stop for it to be unrelated to the stop in the mare’s mind. As far as raising the crop to her head - that’s no where near how high her arm was. The intention was to reprimand the horse for a misbehavior and she did. She did not lose her temper and beat the “everloving sh!t outta the mare”. Hitting a horse behind the leg is the appropriate punishment for refusal to go forward. Beezie is an amazing rider and horsewoman and I, for one, would never question her judgement, not accuse her of lashing out with emotion. She is a professional first and foremost who puts her horses before anything else in her life.

Just rewatched and this exactly! No “beating the everloving sh!t” out of her horse. And no switching of hands. Good grief, I’ve done exactly the same in the ring, swift and to the point. I adore Beezie, and while I agree she screwed up coming into the combo the first time (and you’ll notice she did NOT hit when it was her obvious mistake) you CANNOT ever leave the ring on a bad note in the horses mind and she did NOT! She corrected and reprimanded and then took the horse over a courtesy fence with no issues at all!

[jumpingmaya]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;6483576]
Are some of you seriously suggesting that Beezie’s horse was poled (or similar) in the schooling ring at the Olympic Games? You don’t think that would have been a bit obvious?

Sometimes, horses really DO get impressed by certain jumps, certain rings, etc. It happens. Even to very experienced horses, which this horse is not (relatively speaking).

Some of you really need to come off it. I mean, what happened to the Canadian horse that lost its mind in Dressage, then? Presumably they were cattle prodding that one in the butt before it went in the ring to make its movement more “expressive”? Because no horse would ever just spook and do something unpredictable…and…horse-like…not at the Olympic Games![/QUOTE]

… I’m going to no comment… as I know too much of what goes on behind scenes… obviously…

Trust me… you don’t want to know…
And if you think that it doesn’t happen- glad you have a “happy place” that you can take your mind back to…

And I don’t mean this in a sarcastic mean way- I’m just saying that this happens… and that I really believe the mare was over-prepped… and know from experience that the odds of it are… let’s just say great.

[relocatedTXjumpr]

Does anyone have a link to the video of the ride?

[ser42]

@jumpingmaya;6484542

… I’m going to no comment… as I know too much of what goes on behind scenes… obviously…

Trust me… you don’t want to know…
And if you think that it doesn’t happen- glad you have a “happy place” that you can take your mind back to…

And I don’t mean this in a sarcastic mean way- I’m just saying that this happens… and that I really believe the mare was over-prepped… and know from experience that the odds of it are… let’s just say great.

This is not a “no comment,” this is clearly insinuating she poled the horse or something similar.

You may be “behind the scenes” but I’d be careful, being accused of slander ain’t pretty.

[jumpingmaya]

[QUOTE=ser42;6484621]
This is not a “no comment,” this is clearly insinuating she poled the horse or something similar.

You may be “behind the scenes” but I’d be careful, being accused of slander ain’t pretty.[/QUOTE]

I voiced my opinion… that’s all.
Not behind the scene at the Olympics so I’m not accusing her or pointing the finger.

Most horses are prepped- that’s just the way it is. This one looked over-prepped to me… Some other horses did as well…

[Griffyn]

Ponysize- most of us are gold medalists in the armchair showjumping division! I personally never jump anything bigger than a haybale. That said, I couldnt begin to comment on her ride, except that Ive been proud of her riding in the past and Im sure I will again. Tremendously proud of all the riders trying to give us some great rides. Analysis will live on for another day!

[danceronice]

@jumpingmaya;6484628

I voiced my opinion… that’s all.
Not behind the scene at the Olympics so I’m not accusing her or pointing the finger.

You just said you KNOW what goes on behind the scenes. In this context, you’re implying you KNOW BM/all the top riders pole their horses/sore them/“prep” them somehow.

@jumpingmaya

… I’m going to no comment… as I know too much of what goes on behind scenes… obviously…

Trust me… you don’t want to know…
And if you think that it doesn’t happen- glad you have a “happy place” that you can take your mind back to…

And I don’t mean this in a sarcastic mean way- I’m just saying that this happens… and that I really believe the mare was over-prepped… and know from experience that the odds of it are… let’s just say great.

Quoted again for posterity. There’s a difference between “opinion” and “insinuation.” This is the latter.

If the mare was jumping big, my guess would be that jumping a course at the Olympics in front of 22,000 spectators just MIGHT put even an experienced horse a bit on edge. Heck, look at the Swedish rider whose horse deer-jumped and wrecked after having a moment of OMGWTFBBQ I AM NOT GOING IN THAT RING. VV is experienced enough not to be a basket case but given the completely different energy of the enormous crowd and big, extremely fancy fences she might have been a bit more “up” than normal.

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=jumpingmaya;6484542]
… I’m going to no comment… as I know too much of what goes on behind scenes… obviously…

Trust me… you don’t want to know…
And if you think that it doesn’t happen- glad you have a “happy place” that you can take your mind back to…

And I don’t mean this in a sarcastic mean way- I’m just saying that this happens… and that I really believe the mare was over-prepped… and know from experience that the odds of it are… let’s just say great.[/QUOTE]

Well, that’s nice, Jumpingmaya. Do you know Beezie and/or her family personally? Because it may interest you to know that I do.

[jumpingmaya]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;6484819]
Well, that’s nice, Jumpingmaya. Do you know Beezie and/or her family personally? Because it may interest you to know that I do.[/QUOTE]

Ok- I’ll take a step back… I apologize if I came across the wrong way… Didn’t mean to insinuate even though reading it (without hearing a possible tone of voice that went with it)- I can see how it came across that way.

I only meant to voice an opinion… Hope I was wrong…