Opinions on a 12yo ex racing tb stallion as a jumper

[Green_pastures]

So…
Not that I need another horse but i have been offered a 12yo tb stallion by an acquaintance of ours. He raced until he was 7 when he sprained a tendon. Had 6 months rest and the ran 2 more races as a 8yo for a 2nd and 8th then retired. Trainer kept him after he retired with the plan to turn him into a hunter but that never happened as the trainer broke his hip about 3 months after this horse finished racing.

Since then he hasn’t really done much, he’s been used as a buddy at the track and to teach young jockeys on. Very quiet and sensible. Has never covered a mare and is currently paddocked with 2 geldings and across a fence from 4 mares without issues. Went and saw him in the paddock over the weekend and if i hadn’t been told he had balls I wouldn’t have known he was any different from the geldings in with him.

Today I took him down to my neighbours arena and lunged and free jumped him. He’s got decent movement for a tb and was happily clearing 1.2m down the lane and gave everything about a foot of space.

Hes by Kashani out of a Norman pentaquad/war hawk mare.

So, thoughts? Is it unrealistic to plan a career change for a 12yo stallion?

Have a vet booked to look at him tomorrow too…

[Redlei44]

What is your goal with him? Resale or keep for yourself? You’ll geld him ASAP? He sounds like a good egg, and if he vets, he could be a fun project. But by the time time he’s “made” as a jumper, he’ll be in his mid-teens, so time isn’t on your side if you would hope or need to sell him. A lot of folks love their “war horses” for soundness and world ethic.

[Vyce]

If he’s a project just for you then it sounds like a good deal. If you’re thinking of buying to flip and sale once he’s a trained jumper, given his age I’m not sure how marketable he’d be.

[BeeHoney]

It just really depends. If you like the horse and would be doing this for fun, I don’t see an issue. The main things that I would worry about are 1) free jumping ability doesn’t always have much of a relation to how a horse performs under saddle or doing courses. It’s nice to see some athletic ability, but it’s definitely not some predictor of future jumper ring success and 2) at 12, the horse really has very minimal resale value and 3) gelding an older stallion is not necessarily a simple procedure, in my own case I would spend the extra $$ to have it done at the clinic and be wary of complications and 4) you are asking a semi-retired 12 year old horse to embark on a new and somewhat demanding career, I think it would be reasonable to do a vetting first.

[hoopoe]

He sounds like a nice fellow I would expect the price to be exceptionally low, if not free. A new career is reasonable, you have a lot of conditioning to do. Local trainer to me took someones ranch horse turned it into a 3D horse and then retired there to Dressage only. He finished at Grand Prix in his 20s. Never say never, with an awesome temperament this might be that golden good fellow what a string of children /AAs learn to show on.

and who does not like a nice TB?

[NancyM]

Sometimes something good just falls into your hands. Good luck with him! Is he worth keeping a stallion? Not so much for racing, but as an option for non TB mares looking for refinement and TB blood in producing sport prospects? There are not a lot of TB stallions around that are available to sport breeders, if they need one. Just a thought. Live cover is easy and cheap, with a kind and well mannered stallion. IMO, if a stallion can not live cover safely and effectively, he isn’t worth breeding to.

[Anne]

Ability to live cover falls exactly last on my list of stallion criteria, as in totally irrelevant, because there is no way I would expose the horses or humans to that risk. what an interesting belief.

[BostonHJ]

@Anne

Ability to live cover falls exactly last on my list of stallion criteria, as in totally irrelevant, because there is no way I would expose the horses or humans to that risk. what an interesting belief.

The Jockey Club requires live cover which is why it could matter for a well bred and/or successfully raced TB.

[Vyce]

I don’t know much about breeding so this thread is getting interesting. Keeping him a stud for breeding to the sport breeders could also be a source of extra money/ pocket change? (Sorry if it’s a dumb question I’m just curious).

[SusanO]

Most sport horse breeders are not interested in breeding to an unlicensed stallion, not the least of which is that the foal will not be able to be registered. If I go to all the trouble and expense to get my mares inspected and performance tested I am not going to be interested in a stallion that is not approved by my registry of choice. That would be economic suicide. Breeding is not a huge money maker anyway - I don’t want an unregistered foal. And getting a 12 year old stallion approved that has been raced for many years will be hard to do plus it is expensive. He will need a pretty extensive performance career and then will have to meet the criteria of each registery.

Now if somebody wants to spend the money and buy a bunch of TB mares, breed them and campaign the offspring they may have people interested in them for performance careers if they are outstanding. Standing a stallion is not a moneymaker in most cases. Most in this country do not get a lot of mares - even the good ones. Frozen semen is just too cheap if you have a younger mare and a good vet. You can breed to the best horses in the world that way and marketing wise it makes sense to do that.

I realize there may be some small breeders that are not interested in registries and have a herd of mares. Even if the foals are outstanding they are not going to sell for what a registered foal will even though the breeder has spent as much getting them on the ground as someone who uses more marketable stallions.

[skydy]

@Vyce

I don’t know much about breeding so this thread is getting interesting. Keeping him a stud for breeding to the sport breeders could also be a source of extra money/ pocket change? (Sorry if it’s a dumb question I’m just curious).

No. Sport horse breeders will not breed their mares to an unproven TB stallion. He would need a stellar performance record, approval by Warmblood registries, and some exceptional offspring on the ground that have shown some talent in the chosen discipline.

[ryansgirl]

People seriously think the OP should keep the horse intact and not geld him and then use him for breeding?? Really?? Um yeah no. He’s unproven. Who knows what his conformation is. Or his temperament.

He sounds like he could be a fun project to keep as a personal horse - once gelded. Tough to resell him as he’d be in his teens most likely. Good luck trying to resell him if not gelded. I spent enough years on the backside to tell you stallions were almost impossible to find homes for. I had to tell every trainer/owner to get them gelded - they’d have more options to finding a good home.

I’ve been around enough stallions to know I’d never keep one in my barn.

[bingbingbing]

@Green pastures

So…
Not that I need another horse but i have been offered a 12yo tb stallion by an acquaintance of ours. He raced until he was 7 when he sprained a tendon. Had 6 months rest and the ran 2 more races as a 8yo for a 2nd and 8th then retired. Trainer kept him after he retired with the plan to turn him into a hunter but that never happened as the trainer broke his hip about 3 months after this horse finished racing.

Since then he hasn’t really done much, he’s been used as a buddy at the track and to teach young jockeys on. Very quiet and sensible. Has never covered a mare and is currently paddocked with 2 geldings and across a fence from 4 mares without issues. Went and saw him in the paddock over the weekend and if i hadn’t been told he had balls I wouldn’t have known he was any different from the geldings in with him.

Today I took him down to my neighbours arena and lunged and free jumped him. He’s got decent movement for a tb and was happily clearing 1.2m down the lane and gave everything about a foot of space.

Hes by Kashani out of a Norman pentaquad/war hawk mare.

So, thoughts? Is it unrealistic to plan a career change for a 12yo stallion?

Have a vet booked to look at him tomorrow too…

Not at all. He sounds like he for sure has the brains. And happily free jumping a 1.2m shows, at the very least, his willingness to participate. I hope you get him. He sounds like a good guy. I would love to see pics.

[Jealoushe]

I restarted a war horse at 11, after 77 starts. He turned into an amazing lower level eventer, always in the top of the class. Never got the chance to see what he could do as I sadly lost him last year. He was a horse of a lifetime, even if it was a very short time.

I say go for it, but gelded.

[NancyM]

@ryansgirl

People seriously think the OP should keep the horse intact and not geld him and then use him for breeding?? Really?? Um yeah no. He’s unproven. Who knows what his conformation is. Or his temperament.

He sounds like he could be a fun project to keep as a personal horse - once gelded. Tough to resell him as he’d be in his teens most likely. Good luck trying to resell him if not gelded. I spent enough years on the backside to tell you stallions were almost impossible to find homes for. I had to tell every trainer/owner to get them gelded - they’d have more options to finding a good home.

I’ve been around enough stallions to know I’d never keep one in my barn.

The plan would be that the horse would prove his worth as a stallion through success in competition in the coming years. His conformation has lasted as “sound” through 6 years of a racing career, which is something that no “non-TB” has done. His disposition sounds quite good, better than many. His jumping ability sounds encouraging. The plan would not be to sell the horse, the plan would be to keep the horse, compete the horse, and accept a few select mares to breed on his attributes for approved breeders who appreciate having access to such a TB stallion. Perhaps not you.

I’ve kept stallions in my barn on occasion, first in race training, then on in hunter/jumper training and competition. If it is a “nice” horse, it’s not an issue, nor is it difficult. It requires that the handler not forget that the horse is a stallion, but everyone else at the show should not even know the horse is not gelded. “That” is a “well mannered” stallion. If it’s not a “nice” and “well mannered” horse as a stallion, then it needs to be gelded, and is asking to be gelded. An owner needs to have a suitable facility to keep a stallion at home, and acquire the experience to handle him adequately both for breeding, riding and in competition. But to immediately geld a 12 year old stallion that other people have handled, competed and kept successfully, before you get to know him, or actually “try” him in a sport discipline that you are interested in, may be premature. He can always be gelded, but you can’t sew them back on if you later regret gelding him. Instead, you are looking at cloning him at that point to rectify your mistake- an expensive and questionable practice.

Good horsemen can keep nice stallions at home, compete them, and breed them to appropriate mares without issue.

[beowulf]

The first OTTB I ever owned was a warhorse with 75 starts, retired at 9 with double bows but had been rehabbed by the time I got him… Did some HJ with him, did some eventing, then he went to my sister and he taught her the ropes of eventing - was the safest, most generous horse I ever sat on. I can’t explain how special he was. He always carried his riders home safely.

I don’t think 12 is too old for a career change, but with any horse off the track you will be dealing with undoing some residual damage from his racing career. That being said warhorses are special, especially when they’ve raced a long time - they tend to be worldly, and very generous. You don’t get to 50+ starts without a ton of heart and try in you.

Regarding him being a stallion… If you’re in a position to take one, it is a non-issue. Stallions are non-issues for me, personally - but that’s not the same for all barns. A well trained and raised stallion really is not a huge deal to me. Or you could geld him - we gelded our last warhorse (he had 77 starts, was a stallion the entire time) and you would never know he was gelded late. I sometimes think it was a shame he was gelded, personally - while I could never afford to compete and campaign a TB stallion (my pockets are just not that deep) he is the total package in terms of classic TB type, athleticism, and is a better mover than average… And his sire is known for having several UL eventers in the area… But, it is what it is.

[Arelle]

I wouldn’t take him on betting I’d retire off of selling breedings, but if he’s for you - then sure! There is a lot to be said for a stallion with a good enough mind to do what you outlined in the OP, stay sound on the race track for that length of time, and 12 is not THAT old.

Just ensure you have your bases covered with regard to any additional insurance required, etc. Make sure that you can show a stallion at any venue/circuit you want to compete on.

[skydy]

@NancyM

The plan would be that the horse would prove his worth as a stallion through success in competition in the coming years. His conformation has lasted as “sound” through 6 years of a racing career, which is something that no “non-TB” has done. His disposition sounds quite good, better than many. His jumping ability sounds encouraging. The plan would not be to sell the horse, the plan would be to keep the horse, compete the horse, and accept a few select mares to breed on his attributes for approved breeders who appreciate having access to such a TB stallion. Perhaps not you.

I’ve kept stallions in my barn on occasion, first in race training, then on in hunter/jumper training and competition. If it is a “nice” horse, it’s not an issue, nor is it difficult. It requires that the handler not forget that the horse is a stallion, but everyone else at the show should not even know the horse is not gelded. “That” is a “well mannered” stallion. If it’s not a “nice” and “well mannered” horse as a stallion, then it needs to be gelded, and is asking to be gelded. An owner needs to have a suitable facility to keep a stallion at home, and acquire the experience to handle him adequately both for breeding, riding and in competition. But to immediately geld a 12 year old stallion that other people have handled, competed and kept successfully, before you get to know him, or actually “try” him in a sport discipline that you are interested in, may be premature. He can always be gelded, but you can’t sew them back on if you later regret gelding him. Instead, you are looking at cloning him at that point to rectify your mistake- an expensive and questionable practice.

Good horsemen can keep nice stallions at home, compete them, and breed them to appropriate mares without issue.

The OP said nothing about breeding the horse, only asked if the horse could have a new career at age 12 (which he can if all goes well.)
I wouldn’t geld him straight away since he’s 12. If the OP has experience with stallion handling I’d wait and see how he does at her farm before gelding him. Not because of breeding potential but because he’s 12.

[mooonie]

I have seen this once before. The boy was beautiful, a very good jumper and a great guy.
He found love one evening though and there was an unexpected pregnancy which had a sad ending (the mare died in delivery). He was then gelded but it was too late.
I would geld immediately.

[skydy]

@mooonie

I have seen this once before. The boy was beautiful, a very good jumper and a great guy.
He found love one evening though and there was an unexpected pregnancy which had a sad ending (the mare died in delivery). He was then gelded but it was too late.
I would geld immediately.

Part of managing a stallion is the ability to make sure that this does not happen. Proper fencing and horse keeping practices insure this.
If one doesn’t know how to keep a stallion, then they should obviously not have a stallion.:yes: