Opinions on this betathane harness, quality wise?
Not going to be competing in it. Just light pleasure driving with a single 14.2hh horse.
Thank you!
I do not care for the one you linked. There are no blinkers on the bridle, no cavesson (full noseband all the way around the muzzle) and it appears that there are no trees in the harness saddles, just for starters.
A single horse needs a tree to keep shaft weight off his spine. He needs blinkers to not be reading your body language and responding to that instead of the voice commands. The full noseband prevents bridle cheeks from pulling away from his head to see you behind his blinkers, again to avoid horse āhelpingā to drive by reading you body language. You may NOT want him walking off, but he sees the whip wave and takes it for a signal to go.
Getting harness for your animal is going to take some knowledge on your part. You can get information from local Driving Clubs, books, so animal has good harness fit and is obedient to voice commands. Has horse been driven before? If not, YOU should probably get some Driving lessons so you will react properly with turns, halts, if horse gets a bit silly for a moment. Lessons will give you the training needed, because Driving is nothing like riding a horse. You have that vehicle tied on him, have to figure out your proper responses in situations.
To save a bit of money, check for used harness before investing in a new one. With a 2-wheeler vehicle, you want a wider saddle, probably 4". Skinny saddles cut into his back with shaft weight of vehicle and passengers riding in there. Bend the saddle, to check for a tree so the spine of horse is not carrying any weight when harnessed, that can be painful.
Carriage Driving Classifieds on Facebook has a lot of sale stuff, all kinds of prices. Good place to start looking.
Get a soft cloth measuring tape and write down horse dimensions. This will help buy a harness that actually fits him. You can ask harness seller to measure, make sure the harness is the proper size for your horse. Buying odds and ends of straps to make harness fit well, adds up to a lot of money. Then you have extra pieces laying around. I would start with a breastcollar harness, not a full neck collar like many Draft horses use. Breastcollars stay fitting well as horse gets more fit or is on grass. Neck collars are specific sizes and donāt change. You need a 2nd or third collar if he gains or loses weight.
Here is a site with the places to measure on an equine, to properly size what he needs. I love Smuckerās harness, but they are a bit expensive to start as your first harness.
Thanks goodhors. There actually IS a nose band, as well as blinders if you read the description. I didnāt note the saddle and lack of tree, thanks for pointing that out. Iām just having trouble finding a harness in Canada that I like.
In Canada I would look up http://aaronmartin.com they have a wide variety of harnesses at varying price points.
As goodhors noted the saddles donāt appear to have a defined gullet. You might get away with it on a four-wheeled vehicle as there isnāt any weight to speak of in the shafts, but you do need it to keep weight off the spine for a two wheeled cart.
I have not driven in a long time. When I did, my trainer would not use any of the non-leather harness on the grounds that it would not break, and would be difficult to cut, if a āsituationā happened.
Not sure if his logic still applies?
Is there a source for Amish harness in your area?
Sorry to recommend them again, really, I donāt work thereā¦but Cloverbar Carriage sells Amish made harnesses. He can get you whatever you want, tons of in-stock stuff too. Beta/granite mostly, the leather stuff is more pricey and he didnāt appear to have as much in Stock. I just bought a new collar and Hames last week.
MUCH lower price point on entry level stuff than Alberta Carriage Supply. If he has any suitable consignment items, heāll sell you those too.
Goodhors made an important points about measuring etcā¦ If you donāt have soft measuring tape you can use hay string on the horse and then take it to a yard stick or metal tape measure.
I personally would never have a betathane myself. I will not break if you get into trouble. I key point for someone new to driving. Keep your eyes peeled for a used leather harness- I get mine cheaper than I see new betathane.
Good luck and welcome to the world of driving.
Guys could I get some feedback on these two harnesses?
Leather:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252734698641?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252733197394?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
Synthetic:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252734599058?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
Those 2 leather ones look suspiciously like the one I have that cost $179. Itās hard to judge the actual leather from eBay.
If I had $1100 to spend on harness, I would not be looking on eBay. Period.
I would buy from a reputable harness shop before I looked on eBay. Iām not going to say thereās not deals to be found there, but if you are asking online what constitutes a good harness, eBay is probably not the best place for you to be shopping.
This is my day-to-day harness:http://www.ehorseequipment.com/inc/sdetail/35504/16656 It is tough and durable. I had them make me a breeching to go with it.
Because everything I have ever gotten from Winnerās Circle/World Champion has been good quality, I would consider their pleasure harness + a caveson.
One of my Amish friends is a harness maker; for the life of me I canāt remember what the actual business name is. He does have a website.
If you can find an Amish harness maker, you may get a good deal on a leather set of harness. Most of them donāt use leather harness, so when they get one on trade it tends to sit. You need to be careful about dry rot though. If an Amish guy trades a set of leather harness in, itās probably been sitting in his barn for a couple years unused.
I was snooping around and I came across there Facebook page.
https://m.facebook.com/Leaders-Worldwide-Inc-USA-673905816031909/
Looks like they have a lot of products which look really goodā¦
I learned a different philosophy on beginner harnessā¦my instructor said that you didnāt WANT anything to break. Your safety depends on the excellent condition of your harness and it working as designed. He recommended buying the best fitting and best condition harness you could find, and the most important partā¦that you enjoy using. With draftsā¦the harnesses we had, the HUGE benefit of synthetic was how much lighter the whole thing is. He had a gorgeous russet harnessā¦it weighed a metric ton and once the rain started it was even worse. Sold me on betathane. Beta is also much less work to clean and very simple to inspect. He said people were always bringing in old/antique leather harnessā¦and he told them to quit screwing around and buy a synthetic set in decent shape. He didnāt mince words, the teamster.
That said, I do own a lot of betathane tack for riding tooā¦the hardware breaks if things go really wrong. I mean horse stepping on reins after a fall wrong. If you have a very small equine, it might be worth thinking about brass hardware.
I also learned that having a harness that would break is a very bad thing.
I had a lovely beta harness for my last driving pony (retired last spring). It was perfect for my needs, and the one time he had a blowup it held together as it was supposed to. So my cart stayed where it belonged, enabling me to get him under control.
That harness is now in use at a therapeutic program. When I fitted it to their pony, the harness still looked as nice as the day I bought it.
Rebecca
Thanks for all your input, guys. I looked into Aaron Martin a few weeks ago but not sure if Iām a huge fan of how their harnesses look. I looked up Cloverbar Carriages - itād be great to buy somewhat-local! And I like the look of their harnesses. Not sure if anyone else has had experiences with them.
What do I all look for? On my checklist so far are:
Buckles for more adjustments
Tree in the saddle
Full noseband
Anything else?
I would lean towards buckle-in traces. I prefer to have that adjustment up front than have the tail of the trace sticking out behind. The buckle-in style tends to be a little more, but I think itās worth it. Most places I have seen will allow you to upgrade to the buckle style.
I also like a breastcollar with a slight curve to it or at the very least a false martingale to ensure that the breastcollar doesnāt push up into the neck.
A couple more US makers include:
http://www.chimacumtack.com
http://www.parrytack.com
http://www.mydrafthorse.com
http://www.shipshewanaharness.com
http://www.yonies.com
I have purchased harness (parts and full) from all of these makers except for Chimacum, but I know several people who like working with Chimacum so theyāre up there too. Wish I knew some more Canadian makers to recommend to you!
Thanks CERT.
http://www.cloverbarcarriages.com/72d-breast-collar-driving-harness/
I emailed these people and they were very helpful! What do you guys think about this harness? Itās made of Griamond 480 (combination of diamond and granite products from a Biothane company in Ohio).
The saddle/backpad does not have a tree but is stiff. Itās 4" wide and totals 6" wide with the fur pad. They also donāt have a full noseband but can get one added - how big of a deal is this I wonder?
And would you go with curved blinkers or flat?
Thanks again for everyoneās help! Itās very much appreciated!
Have you looked at a Comfy Fit harness? I actually have one and love it! I prefer this harness if I 'm using anything heavier than a jog cart.
I also have the harness RedMares linked to that I use with a jog cart. Its a great lightweight harness but if you plan on using anything other than a lightweight cart, the saddlepad will not distribute the weight correctly.
I would second what CERT said about having buckle-in traces and the curved breastcollar as desireable features on a single horse harness. I would pay the extra to have them.
Other items I want are the split in breastcollar support strap, so it has two buckles on each side of horse, holding it up. Breastcollar is a bit more stable in motion, gives more options in adjustment. We have false martingales on all breastcollars and full neck collars of harness. Keeps things quieter while driving, breastcollar can only go limited distance forward before you run out of martingale. Certain long shafts, loose breeching fit, will allow an animal to go back and breastcollar is almost off horseās head! A very bad situation that is easily prevented with the false martingale.
I also want either two breeching support straps or a split strap as the breeching support strap. You get better fitting adjustments with two locations on each side.
I would not buy any ānew harnessā from Ebay, unless it was by a name maker. The Indian imports donāt really fit ANY horse, are poorly made, you can get no satisfaction in returns. Buying from a maker, they will work with you to make things right. Getting good measurements to start, is your job, unless you can take horse to them to measure. They want satisfied customers.
Leather or biothane, always a question. I love leather for how it shapes to fit my horse with use. The synthetics never will do that. Leather, well cared for, lasts for years and years, while the synthetics have a shorter life of use. Both are strong materials, able to take the force of equines pulling on it. We have both kinds, but I admit the synthetics are the daily use harness. Easier upkeep, lighter when harnessing multiple horses a day. Leather comes out for showing, competitions. I have to confess that having to keep up a vast amount of leather goods in reins, saddles, harness, I do get a bit tired of the work. Part of keeping up with driving Multiples!! Ha Ha.
I would agree with those saying you NEVER want harness to break. I have argued with others on this, modern harness being so strong and tough. You just canāt build in a ābreakawayā option that is not going to hurt you later on. Accidents I have seen, been involved with, horses struggle, than stop with tension on harness. You hold the horse down, others help release the attachment points, when clear THEN horse is allowed to get up. Not hurt, not scared, like if he fought. Horse WILL fight if it feels the least bit of tension slack, which is what harness failure provides. Situation goes out of control then.
DO NOT EVER JUMP IN TO HELP A CARRIAGE ACCIDENT WITH YOUR KNIFE OUT TO CUT HARNESS. I have never seen it needed to fix the situation, would have made things MUCH worse by removing control of the horse that reins and holding head down on fallen horse/s, gave to rescuers. Believe me when I say a person canāt control a scared Mini, let alone some of the larger Sporthorses used in CDE driving. Doesnāt matter what you weigh, you canāt hold them. Equines are more muscular, even the little ones.
So I want no part of my harness to break or give when in use. All our harness has stainless steel buckles and tongues. You NEVER want buckle tongues to be anything except steel, even on brass hardware. Brass bends or breaks with stress, so brass buckle tongues are rather dangerous, can bend and pull right thru the buckle itself. Some parts like the traces are nylon sandwiched between leather. Snap shackles are over 10,000# working weight rated, so they can take the force of horses jerking on them without failure. Nothing has any Conway type buckles, impossible to use easily.
Reins should fit your hand size. Donāt listen to claims of āstrong and sturdyā over comfort. Heavy leather is just that, heavy, tiring to hold very long. Smaller hand needs a narrower rein. Reins should buckle into the bit each harnessing so you LOOK and FEEL the leather each use. Feel if stitches are wearing, leather is worn or stiff so you can do something about the issue. No snaps allowed on reins or breeching straps, for the same reasons. Snaps are cast metal, they WILL break easily when stressed. Not made for heavy loads or sudden jerks. Air pockets or other issues in the castings will break.
Ideal Harness makes nice synthetic harness, is in Canada. It is very popular harness and they are easy folks to work with. Easy to resell if you end up not liking driving with time.
http://www.idealharness.com/shop.php
Zilco is another good synthetic harness maker. They are also higher end in price, but a reliable product. Not sure who is a Canadian dealer, but you could contact them to find it.
http://www.zilcoharness.com/about.htm
Buy a good harness to begin with, have it fit the animal well. Get the options of shaped breastcollar etc. because you plan to use it a lot, for a long time. Better to only buy one time so it does all you need. Have it be a harness style in common use, so you can easily resell and not lose your shirt on it.
I looked at the pictures, did not read harness description on my first post, so didnāt find the noseband, blinders, etc. Guess they need photos of what they are selling, not just the Pair Harness photo on the bottom. It is probably good harness, just looks coarse going by the Pairs photo. Perhaps they are more Farm horse oriented, where very sturdy is wanted. Really wide strapping, thick leather, which is going to stay stiff for a long time, even used often. Not what I want for a Single Horse or Pony harness to enjoy myself with. Not what you would want for showing if you later decide to try that.
I have done a lot of mistakes over the years. Bought the $100 box harness, had it break on a runaway. That was fun!! Got a nice sturdy leather Amish harness, but it was cut for Standardbreds, didnāt fit my Arab/QH well, and certainly not stylish to go show with. I ordered a Smuckerās with measurments to fit my horse, was happy for years with it. Only sold it because we went to bigger horses. Ordered more Smuckerās harness for the bigger horses, loved it, fit beautifully on their odd proportions. Moses called me to make sure the measurements were right! We still have the harness because it fits others of that breeding well. It was not cheap, even all those years ago, but I never had a complaint about it. They say you learn by making mistakes, but with help you have gotten here, you should be miles ahead in the learning curve!!
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I bought this harness for my 12.2 driving donkey. It has all the adjustable flexibility I want and comfort for my donkey. http://www.iowavalleycarriage.com/content/enhanced-synthetic-harness
I like the granite/dull finish, looks more like leather and I think it shows wear less than the shiny and Iām not a high-gloss person anyway.
I have driven horses single in harnesses that just have a harness pad under the backband instead of a gig saddle with a tree, but the cart was well-balanced and the work demand low (mostly walking, very little trot). If I were going out for miles and miles and being more demanding I would definitely go for one that has a saddle with a tree instead of a backband with a pad shoved under it.
You can buy a gig saddle seperately starting around $100USD and going as high as you please and adding it to the harness, but at that point you might as well just find a harness that has everything you want.
The noseband serves multiple purposes:
- You do NOT want the horse getting its tongue over the bit. The cavesson doesnāt guarantee it to not happen, but it makes it less likely than without (of course so does having a well-trained horse who is accepting the bit).
- Helps keep the blinders/winkers/blinkers close to the face on a proper driving bridle as the noseband is connected to the cheek pieces, prevening any gaping that might occur with a strong rein aid. Strong rein aid+suddenly seeing everything behind it=potentially bad spook.
The half noseband is something you see more on the work horse side of driving and is something strongly discouraged when it comes to pleasure driving.
I kindof like the look of the pigeon wing blinkers. All of mine are either rounded or square, but that really is up to personal preference.
If it were me Iād ask to upgrade to a breastcollar with a buckle for the traces instead of one with the traces stiched on.
