Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[Paint_Party]

@vxf111

Even at a firesale price, who is going to buy them? And given what it cost to make them, even the “break even” price for them is too much. I hope I’m proven wrong and people are lining up to pay $25,000 to buy these foals and give them great homes but I am wracking my brain and I can’t imagine WHO these buyers ARE?

You’ve pretty much summed up what I was going to post.

Even more confounding are the videos she posts of the rampaging weanlings where they’re declared to be “derby prospects.” Granted, it’s been a while since I’ve judged hunters, but I see no derby prospects.

Maybe she’ll revive her raffle idea. We could each take a chance on ending up with a malnourished, half-starved foal with conformation and movement that belies any direct path to traditional competition. But hey, at least it’d end up in a good home.

[Warmblood1]

@Alterrain

Is Reba the skinny grey?

So in one year she bred her to SIX very $$$ stallions, and she didn’t carry any of them. Someone better at math help me!

Purchase price of Reba- let’s assume 0

Semen (assuming everyone catches on the first try)
Oganno Sitte 1350
For Pleasure 2500 ISCI only
Cornet Oblensky 1250
Comme il Faut 2500 ICSI only
Emerald 1,275
DeNiro 2,250

ET x 6 60,000
Recip mare rental x 6 15,000
board 450 x 12 x 6 32,400

I’m at 120k ish BEFORE hay/ feed, shipping from AZ, ANY emergency vet bills, farrier for trims, deworming, travel to her beloved keurings, shavings/ straw, vaccines, coggins, preg scans, etc. I would say she’s at closer to 300k JUST for this one year breeding. On a braider salary. Something isn’t adding up.

I asked her about her numbers on the other thread because I couldn’t see how she would break even using ICSI/recipient mares with old, frozen semen while producing foals from unproven harness mares. She went into it a little:

[vxf111]

In other news, I am sort of toying with breeding my personal mare for a personal foal for me and the more I read this thread the more I start thinking “maybe I’d better not.” That photo of a skinny mare in a dirty stall with a dead foal next to her was sobering.

[smoofox]

Whar a BS manifesto that is.

I doubt there was “well-paid” hired staff.

She is obviously “not around daily to do what is supposed to be done” - she doesn’t care. No excuse for poor dragged down recipient mares to be in that condition. No excuse for those weanlings to look like the poor kids you might find in the back of a pen at the low end auction mart at this time of year. The horses were checked on 12 and 30 days ago and looked great?? BS.

The horses are NOT “okay”. The wrong person those horses relied on - was Kate. Poor dear, she cannot handle the stress of being a irresponsible owner and breeder. No, she is not a “darn good horsewoman” - imagine braiding sleek, shiny high end horses for shows while her own horses slowly starve - and you know that is happening and you do not really care.

She is also not a good judge of character and work ethic - in herself - when it comes to her own horses and amazeballs breeding stock that everyone is supposedly in awe of and clamoring for…

[Alterrain]

@BrownDerby

This breeder/seller almost sounds like a hoarder. Breed breed breed, farm out (maintain ownership) and price too impossibly high, and possibly disfigured, to sell.

100% this. She’s starting to remind me of that lady from NJ (?? with the helmet and the cats) where the horses are too disfigured (by her own hand) to sell so then she “has” to keep them to “take care of them”.

[CuriosoJorge]

VXF, you’re 100% correct. Many people have previously expressed concerns about her business model, especially after our experiences with people like Jill Burnell and the “foal mill”.

[SuzieQNutter]

Is she selling foals before they are weaned. What age are foals usually weaned?

[Scribbler]

@SuzieQNutter

Is she selling foals before they are weaned. What age are foals usually weaned?

She is selling foals before they are born, then likely charging the buyer s boarding fee until the foal is weaned. I would say 5 or 6 months is a typical age to wean. You can certainly let it go much longer with no issues and I’ve seen foals as young as 3 months taken from their mother’s which isn’t ideal but they survive.

As far as weight of mares. It’s one thing for the recipient mares to get pulled down by pregnancy. It’s another thing for the donor mare to look awful! Also Kate has posted photos on her own accounts of mares looking awful, so it’s not like she hasn’t seen this building up.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

@CuriosoJorge

That mare went home 300 pounds underweight and lame.

Not just lame, but laminitic. Most likely the mare got no vet attention after she aborted.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

KS has dirty-deleted her public post admitting that the starving weanling was hers.

[Scribbler]

@Old_Mac_Donald

KS has dirty-deleted her public post admitting that the starving weanling was hers.

And all the comments, many of which did not buy her story. I thinks it’s high time she got out of the business.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

This was September. Clearly this is a recurring issue, not a “one off, 12 days, someone else’s fault”

[CuriosoJorge]

@Scribbler

It’s one thing for the recipient mares to get pulled down by pregnancy.

Exactly, which is also why if you get in a skinny recip, you have to feed her up before she foals and starts lactating. The dam of the Chacco Blue filly looked terrible when she foaled, and I’m sure only went downhill from there as she attempted to make milk for her poor child.

This isn’t rocket science, and anyone who’s breeding on this scale should understand basic nutrition, or have the resources to get help. Heck the feed companies even do free consults. Oh wait that would mean she’d have to actually give them feed, not just supposed alfalfa and coastal.

[MHM]

Extremely ironic statement, particularly in hindsight:

“I think our industry would be better as a whole if people stood up for what is right.”

[Scribbler]

Are we surprised this woman can’t keep barn staff? We have all the online drama with her not paying or slagging off her braiding crew. She had exactly the same kind of blowup a year ago over barn staff “betraying” her in Oklahoma. And clearly constant drama in Florida.

I’m.also confused as she touted having “her barn” on FB but she’s just renting stalls. She talks about horses being in full board but it’s really dry stalls where she needs to organize all the care? Someone up thread said she was at a racetrack, is that true? I would believe it because off season second tier or bankrupt tracks or fairgrounds could be a good place to source short term budget dry stalls. But what an awful place for foals. They need to have big fields to run around in to develop properly.

I was being snide calling her a foal mill last year but unfortunately that’s exactly what she is running.

Random breeding, lots of advertising, lack of care, cheapest accomodations and bad outcomes. And over priced.

[Ghazzu]

@Scribbler

Are we surprised this woman can’t keep barn staff? We have all the online drama with her not paying or slagging off her braiding crew. She had exactly the same kind of blowup a year ago over barn staff “betraying” her in Oklahoma. And clearly constant drama in Florida.

That thought had crossed my mind.
Drama seems to follow her.

[CanteringCarrot]

100%

Maybe she will actually get out of breeding/horses now? She’s talked about it before…

[Scribbler]

It’s interesting. Have we ever had a full scale train wreck personality that didn’t also compromise their horses care and health in some way, if they had a horse and it was under their care? Susan Wacowitch from Dressage Hub was out of actually riding by the time her online presence got really problematic, and Kanarek always had her horses in full board. But everywhere else, craycray persona does seem to line up with horse abuse eventually.

[fordtraktor]

Putting these on this thread too for posterity. Three additional times in the last 2 years (April 2022, Nov 22, August 23) there have been issues with the horses not being fed/cared for:

[fargaloo1]

@Ghazzu

That thought had crossed my mind.
Drama seems to follow her.

My thought whenever someone complains over and over about all the people who have cheated them, betrayed them, let them down is “who is the common denominator in all these stories?”

IOW – if someone treats you badly, they were probably the jerk. If it seems like MOST people treat you badly, you are probably the jerk.