Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[mlayton]

What are your thoughts on DHH and DHH crosses? Thoughts or experiences on how they are for hunter/jumpers?

I am currently horse shopping and feel like I am seeing a DHH epidemic! Never seen or heard much about the breed until a year ago honestly, so I do not know a lot. I keep seeing DHH crosses being advertised as “Dutch” “Harness Warmblood” too… Majority I see are crosses with TB, QH, Hanoverian, CSH, ASH, CWB, Clydes.

Just to add - I found a DHH cross I really like as a project. I’ve been passing on the ones that look very “DHH” as i’m not keen on the way most are built. but this one doesn’t look DHH at all and has very nice movement and very nice conformation. I am not much of a competitor, just want to enjoy riding for fun now and do some shows here and there. I jump 1.10-1.25 at home, occasional bigger as singles or oxers but I have no desire to compete or do anything bigger at all. Would a DHH cross be suitable for what I wish to do? Again i don’t know a lot about the breed at all!

[Inimitable]

I personally think it’s a weird trend. Especially when the obvious DHH are marketed as Dutch warmbloods. There was a huge thread on it a while back; maybe someone with better search skills can link it.

But for your purposes, I don’t see why a DHH cross wouldn’t be suitable. I’ve seen plenty that can jump, just depends on the horse.

[findeight]

Not about the breed/registry/stud book, its about the horse in front of you. That said, the conformation for a driving horse may not be the best to easily pack a rider around clean and within the time allowed. Temperment and rideability are going to be more important to OP here as well.

Been around several driving horses converted to Hunters and/or Jumpers, but not a clue what they were. Couple were pretty good, few were likely better in harness then under saddle. Depended on that horse and the quality of their basic training or lack thereof. One example was taken out of harness as about a 6 year old and converted to an Adult Hunter because they bolted and became unsafe to drive. Fact not shared with Ammie buyer until it bombed out from under her several times. Nothing to do with riding or driving, unsuitable for either.

If you like one, try them out. What is the cross here? How long have they been working in harness? Or have they even been trained to drive or ride?

One word of warning…the Amish are primarily Dutch and are skillful salesman. Not saying you cant get a good horse from them, you certainly can but a Dutch Harness cross might not be what you think.

[fivestrideline]

Yep. The lady from that trainwreck thread is posting her foals and weanlings all over FB. I just roll my eyes and scroll by. The horses might be fine but I’m not touching the crazy with a 10’ pole.

Part of the issue is that KWPN has multiple sub-categories including DHH. So a DHH can technically be marketed to an unaware person as a KWPN - and they end up with a totally different type than what they thought. This applies more to babies and youngsters, because at a certain point every horse is an individual and you just need to judge the animal in front of you.

[Highflyer1]

I’ve seen some showing and eventing locally. Most are decent jumpers. I probably wouldn’t buy one with the goal of jumping over 3’3 or so but I am sure there are some that can. I think very generally they can be a bit hot and tend to jump high and very round so it can take some work to teach them to jump across fences as the jumps get wider.

[Inimitable]

Yep, it might technically be a “Dutch warmblood,” but it’s disingenuous at best and feels super scammy. DHH as hunter/jumpers seems like an overall trend that will blow over soon, but if you’re not looking for a serious campaigner and just want something athletic to have some fun on, no reason not to consider them if that’s what you’re seeing on the market in your price range.

[pony_grandma]

I’ve scribed for YEH classes and they have scored well. I’m not sure the judges knew that was what was presented.

[trubandloki]

I agree with what the others have said. It really depends on the horse.

Some cross nicely, others look like a high legged driving horse being ridden.

[mlayton]

Yep it is def about the horse presented in front of you, you are right!

I just want something solid, sound, and good brain / personality, this horse seems to have it. I only passed on this breed previously because of conformation as many I see are very DHH looking (awkwardly long necks and not ideal movements for riding as you mentioned more for driving). This one I did not even suspect as a DHH cross. He is not built like it at all. He is 5 years old, just started under saddle this year by a professional (not amish) that trains Dressage and low level jumpers. Never broke to drive or anything. Movements are very nice, similar to a Clyde X.

My only concern is how much sport horse is in the horse’s blood, or if it will be too heavy/drafty for jumping over 1m down the road. It is hard to say without a DNA ancestry report lol. But from what I have seen so far this horse is very athletic yet level headed, and I quite like him. I do want to learn more about the breed before getting my hopes up though. I do not know anyone else with a DHH or DHH X.

[mlayton]

Yes I agree. Very disingenuous… I do want something just fun, sound, solid, with a good brain and personality to have fun! I def want to learn more about this breed though! I cannot find too much online about them.

[fivestrideline]

FWIW, plenty of royally bred jumping line horses never make it past 3’ in the show ring so… YMMV

Look at the conformation of the horse and his canter. Those tend to be the determining factors for scope, on a horse that isn’t currently jumping height.

[mlayton]

I see a lady posting a TON of DHH and DHH X’s all the time. I inquired about one but she seemed very off lol. My gut said no.

[mlayton]

I have only ever had Draft X’s and they all tend to jump the same as you described so I have no problem with this. I am more concerned about health risks or what the DHH temperament is like - i really don’t know anyone with one and I can’t find too much research about the breed! This forum has been very helpful so far though.

[fivestrideline]

Dutch harness horse drama. Update: drama has resumed Dec 27 see post 122

I can’t find the original post to zombie resurrect. So starting new. A year or two ago someone started a thread complaining about an American breeder who was creating DHH but marketing them as Dutch WB, which wasn’t strictly speaking untrue, but the horses had flat croups and harness movement, not really dressage perfection. Long conversation ensued on merits of DHH, but it also became evident the breeder was a drama magnet. I think she was never nsmed but I managed to put together enough detai…

Here is the trainwreck thread - it’s a long read but a cautionary tale on doing your research on breeders. And TONS of info buried in there on DHH, for jumping as well as dressage.

[mlayton]

Thanks so much, will have a read!

[findeight]

@Inimitable

DHH as hunter/jumpers seems like an overall trend that will blow over soon

Nope, the represented as DHH or DHH cross that bolted I referenced earlier was 20 years ago. BTW, that gal unloaded it to an Amish gentleman. Never knew what happened to it but bet it stooped bolting in the first week they had it.

[Scribbler]

A couple of thoughts.

Draft x TB in some ratio (1/4 or 1/2 draft) is a time tested way of getting a “heavy hunter” type before WB were around, and depending on the outcome you might get a TB with more bone (the goal), a smaller plow horse (not the goal!), or anything in between. Usually Clyde or Percheron. If you get the desired type they can jump just fine, and their size is clear by age 5.

The DHH and other fancy light harness horses have a different conformation behind from pulling draft horses. They tend to have a flat croup like an Arabian, a spectacular trot, but a bit of a pogo stick canter up and down. This to me is not a conformation for either jumping or dressage. I would take a good draft x TB over a flat croup on any sporthorse, whether DHH, Arab, saddlebred, etc. Pulling drafts dont have flat croups.

So you need to look at the horse in front of you. Croup conformation is visible in a foal and doesn’t alter that much.

All baby horses float around. When I look at foal sales videos I look at the mare to see the adult outcome. That’s obviously not going to work though if someone is using embryo transplants in donor mares ( and buying frozen semen from the Stud of the Day, so the bio parents only exist in video and photos from high end competition).

I will also own up to being the person that started the thread linked above. I follow the breeder on FB and can attest that the cray cray continues unabated. More of the same, so I got tired of updating the thread. You can expect the breeder to show up reasonably soon on this thread and be defensive

[fivestrideline]

Fingers crossed I didn’t start drama by linking the thread lol. Though I think that breeder must obsessively google DHH stuff, to find every single thread back in the day.

OP wanted DHH/KWPN info and there’s tons of good stuff in there. If one wishes to sift through the nonsense!

[LuvMyTB]

Everything @Scribbler said. I’ve known a few–both very sweet horses, good temperaments, both struggled hard with the canter. The conformation makes it difficult for them to collect to even a basic degree. The gelding I knew just couldn’t get there with the canter in terms of adjustability and so he (IMO) is very limited height-wise, even if he is athletic enough to jump a bigger fence, I think he is totally maxed out at 3.’ The mare I knew had a really hard time cantering in an indoor ring. She improved considerably in a program but it was not an amateur friendly gait.

[fivestrideline]

I’ve been told to buy the canter for jumping horses. And if you can’t buy the canter (ie jog videos of horses on the track) buy the walk.