Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[EventerAJ]

Alfalfa can be cut every 30 days (depending on weather) throughout the growing season. It flowers approximately every 30-40 days, and you want it cut at or before mid-bloom (as it flowers, the protein/quality goes down when it develops seed). In an environment with no winter, and irrigated land (such as AZ) you could get 11 cuttings per year. In a typical northern climate, such as when I farmed alfalfa in KY, you will get cuttings from May through September, and possibly October (depending on how wet it is spring and fall).

[Paint_Party]

@axl

11 cuttings of hay in AZ? Is that possible?

With perfect conditions including proper irrigation, soil and weather, yes it’s “possible” in Arizona. But as I understand it, 8 or 9 cuttings would be more likely and considered a really good year.

Edited to add I see @EventerAJ pretty much said the same thing.

[Aussie_2020]

Are the stems really fine with small leaves? I’m used to coarser stems with big leaves for 1st cutting and the next two cuttings get finer and finer.

[Simkie]

I bought a fifth cut grown in MN and it was so soft and tender, I think I could’ve poured milk over it and eaten it for breakfast. Those later cuts make for beautiful hay!

[FitzE]

11 cuttings also sounds like it would result in some pretty depleted soil. They must have to supplement that soil pretty heavily, no? Do the killer summer temps in AZ not make it very challenging for a lot of the year as well?

[Aussie_2020]

I have not found anything online yet that substantiates 11 cuttings per year. I’m not saying it’s not true, just haven’t seen where that type of yield can be accomplished year after year. Maybe someone can share a link to an operation. I’m interested in reading about it.

[Paint_Party]

Had no idea there was Googleable info, but here’s a link to the Arizona Farm Bureau. Note that this mostly refers to alfalfa for dairy cattle:

https://www.azfb.org/Article/Alfalfa-Arizona-Agriculture-Grows-the-Best#:~:text=In%20Arizona%2C%20our%20farmers%20have,this%20very%20healthy%20forage%20crop.

An interesting sidebar is that several alfalfa farms in AZ have been relying on unfettered access to groundwater, sucking up a precious resource in the southern half of the state with a burgeoning human population. That’s going to stop. Like, now. At least one of the farms was Saudi-owned. So they were using AZ’s water, but shipping the hay back home for Saudi dairy cattle. Here’s a snippet from the NY Times:

Arizona is moving to immediately terminate one lease held by Saudi-owned Fondomonte Arizona, which operates the farm, and will not renew three other leases that are set to expire in February, Governor Hobbs said in a statement this week.

This won’t really affect me or any of the horses I know because as I said before, the horses I know consume that horrible, inferior Colorado alfalfa.

[Ghazzu]

@Paint_Party

An interesting sidebar is that several alfalfa farms in AZ have been relying on unfettered access to groundwater, sucking up a precious resource in the southern half of the state with a burgeoning human population. That’s going to stop. Like, now. At least one of the farms was Saudi-owned. So they were using AZ’s water, but shipping the hay back home for Saudi dairy cattle. Here’s a snippet from the NY Times:

I looked at that when I took a class called “global food systems”, and it is horrifying.
We did a whole unit on “water footprint”.
The Saudis have emptied their desert aquifers with the dairy farms, so they are essentially importing water when they ship the alfalfa.
I suspect the regulations governing water use in the southwest are going to get increasingly restrictive in the near future.
Tey have already told some developers to bugger off wrt water permits for new upscale subdivisions.

[FitzE]

So, growing all that alfalfa in AZ is environmentally disastrous from a water perspective. Then, refusing to learn about and support what’s good and grown more locally, and instead shipping it from AZ down to FL and wherever else adds a hefty carbon footprint to the whole thing as well, huh? Lovely.

[Aussie_2020]

Hey thanks for that link. And also, I feel so bad for your poor, poor horses munching happily on that inferior alfalfa.

[smoofox]

@Rnichols

You can get a short mane without pulling it. I cut my horses mane with scissors and I think the look turns out basically the same. If you do it correctly, cutting the mane doesn’t have to be horrible (despite what I was told for my entire life). I think if I can manage to cut my hair without pain my horse can get their mane cut without pain too.

BTW I don’t “suffer from peer pressure”. I cut my horses mane because I (as in me alone) like the way it looks. Additionally it is easier to keep clean and i don’t have to constantly brush out a long mane to avoid tangles.

You can get that pulled look without actually pulling it. I use a clipper blade and do the same pulling basic motions, only instead of pulling after you push hair back, you use the clipper blade to razor the hair back. It may not thin thick manes out as pulling would but you get nice natural edges/ends that do not look blunt cut in any way.

All that being said, I used to groom for a big WB gelding who loved having his mane pulled. His eyes would soften, his nose would start to twitch, his head would drop… his relaxation always made me laugh. Another mare freaked out if she even thought you were going to pull her mane. She came to us like that - but once she realized that my clipper blade technique was not PULLing, she was okay with it. I would go by her stall in the evenings, step in, do one or two “pulls”, praise her, give her a pat and walk on… and in time she became less reactive - and no doubt thought I was BSC.

I used to do great braids. Awesome hunter manes and tails. Nice dressage rosettes. But slowly my fingers started to cramp and it became very painful. Too much mileage on these hands and a few broken fingers through the years saw to it that my braiding days were over. Just thinking about braiding now makes my fingers cramp a bit! The braiding pros and teams that go through the barns at the big shows are a godsend… but the hunter friends I have were the ones who mentioned KS to me as a source of drama before this thread even appeared on COTH.

[TBROCKS]

I hate braiding, my fingers have taken a number of dislocation and fracture hits over the years so that the ol’ dexterity ain’t what it used to be, and I’d hire someone to do it every time with absolutely no shame.

[SuzieQNutter]

Yes I know you can thin and shorten manes other ways, but Sim says they pulled it and didn’t cut it. The atmosphere there is show horses as well as dressage horses, I don’t know if they still pull them. It would have happened to Sim nearly 20 years ago and he has not forgotten.

I saw a pony in NSW that the owner was pulling their mane. He was normally a placid pony. She was trying to twitch him as he was trying to turn and double barrel her, so no matter if people say it doesn’t hurt them. Horses seem to not know that.

Again that would have been about 30 years ago.

[fordtraktor]

Pulling really depends on the horse and the technique.

I can pull about anything, but I go just a few hairs at a time and over a few days. I don’t pull them out, I add a little soft tension and then the hair releases.

Some people can’t seem but yank the hair out by the roots and that can be very traumatic. Some horses have more sensitive necks than others too.

[CindyB59]

We lived in AZ for 4 years. Moved from Green Valley to Marana for the last 2.

In Marana there are tons of alfalfa fields. It is gorgeous hay, and if the weather cooperates, 11 cuttings isn’t out of the question. That said, I don’t know that I’d pay to ship it far.

A lot of the cotton growers have gone to alfalfa because it is more lucrative.

Edit - and the water use to grow it is gross. Fields are always wet, with lots of runoff. Such a wadte

[EmilyM]

Except he’s probably getting more than 20lbs and he’s not lactating

[DWBFL]

Im just dropping this here because I understand not everyone is on FB. This is from yesterday. Nothing has changed.

[vxf111]

What is POSESSING people to BUY these foals?!

[DWBFL]

They are buying Inutero. Expecting foal care until delivery.

[fivestrideline]

But WHY is the question - current crop and the mares are not well bred, not particularly good looking, and the breeder is nuts if you interact for more than 30 seconds. There are no GOOD photos or decent movement videos. And the price is way above market. No one semi-educated in (jumper) bloodlines and breeding would buy these. So how is KS finding these people?

Realize that I know there’s no good answer. Just tired of facepalming. My head hurts.