Opinions on DHH crosses for jumping?

[Simkie]

@Hillside_H_Ranch

Guys, you’re wasting your breath. I was an animal welfare investigator many, many years ago, and you’ll never make this sort of person admit, or even SEE the problem.

Hear hear. This is a mentally ill person who literally cannot see the difference between her starving stock and well fleshed horses. Even if she was willing to admit that there might be something amiss with her care, which she’s not, she probably STILL wouldn’t be able to see the difference. People have been telling her that her horses are thin and need better care for a LONG time, apparently, and she gives no fucks. We’re sure not going to convince her, sadly. Things are just going to continue until they get bad enough that her horses are seized, and I’d bet money that even then she’ll still take zero responsibility or acknowledge there was ever an issue.

I ran across an old proverb or something the other day, it went something like this:

If one person calls you an ass, look to that person
If two people call you an ass, look to yourself
If three people call you an ass, buy a saddle

We’re so far past the “saddle” point here and she’s still just lol you guys are wroooong, posting pictures of concerningly thin and unthrifty horses like they look just fine, and spewing lies about the actual availability of food stuff like ration balancers It’s just wild how totally out of touch with reality she is. This person isn’t mentally stable.

[Railbird]

@Simkie

Things are just going to continue until they get bad enough that her horses are seized, and I’d bet money that even then she’ll still take zero responsibility or acknowledge there was ever an issue.

So the reason I’m so hot to trot on this is that I have 0 faith anyone will seize these horses. I helped with having 17 senior horses removed by their owners from a retirement farm that has a similar situation with a kind of insane devotion to a non-feeding program that was starving the horses, and none were seized. She is facing charges, but depending on where you are, actually saving the horses requires starting shit. One horse who was not seized was so bad that the muscles in his throat had wasted such that they had to tube him with nutrients in hopes he could gather the strength to swallow again. The standard to which authorities are held for a seizure here is imminent danger, which was interpreted by our law enforcement as “about to die within 24 hours” - getting the word out so people stop enabling these people is unfortunately the most effective thing to be done.

[IPEsq]

Also general PSA to anyone new to feeding horses in the South in areas with sandy soil…Don’t feed alfalfa on the ground. It’s a recipe for getting a lot of sand in the gut.

I grew up in the South but have not lived there for a long time. I spent a while there though during Covid to get more time outside and also give my horse some more turnout time. I always fed alfalfa in the stalls on mats, but my vet there (who was a new vet to me since it had been 20 years since I had horses in the region) cautioned about feeding alfalfa in the pastures. It is about them picking up the loose leaves compared to grass hay. He said he was getting a lot of calls in particular from one farm with a small breeding program that had a lot of sand colics and even had several foals die because they were living outside and getting fed a lot of alfalfa straight in the sand.

[Simkie]

Oh, I totally agree that this should be shouted from the rooftops. Everyone should know. But it’s such a waste of energy to try to convince Kate that something is wrong. Her horses have died because of her lack of care and she still thinks things are fine.

[Scribbler]

People who skitter around the world defensively lying about every single thing, starting attacks on people preemptively, get to the point they will lie and bluster about some pure fact that’s plain clear obvious.

I don’t know which comes first. Are they deluded about reality therefore lie? Or are they so used to lying and blustering as a survival strategy that they stop being able to see reality? Or just think that if they bluster hard enough they have “won” and people believe them (because people walk away and stop arguing)?

I’ve dealt with several people who fit this mold in whole or in part. They do not prosper.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@K_VanOlst

I don’t think these photos make the point she thinks she’s making

About the last mare in these photos… the chestnut.

Is she bred?

Kate is apparently has multiple foals due in 2024. Looking at that mare and wondering if she is thin but bred,

[Scribbler]

@Simkie

Oh, I totally agree that this should be shouted from the rooftops. Everyone should know. But it’s such a waste of energy to try to convince Kate that something is wrong. Her horses have died because of her lack of care and she still thinks things are fine.

I feel in this case, if there wasn’t an existing COTH thread where K had already outed herself as BSC, this last starvation incident would have been swept under the rug like her previous ones. So these threads have actually been helpful as I don’t think she would even have entertained the idea of dispersing her herd without this getting public beyond her FB page which is (like many FB pages) entirely self serving, full of boasts, rants, blocked members, and deleted posts.

Replying to her directly is a courtesy and rhetorical tactic when she appears here to try to bluster at us. I don’t think we expect her to change. But her idiotic claims need to be refuted. And hopefully she will get out of breeding. Though these kinds of problem folks have a whackamole tendency.

Even if she disperses this herd, she might pop up elsewhere with a new scheme. Sounds like she’s burned bridges in California, Arizona, Oklahoma and California. Sounds like she’s a known entity in the Arabian and QH world as a braider and now on the radar as a “sport horse” breeder.

She will run out of breeds and low cost warm weather hidey holes.

My bingo prediction is that even if she dispersed this herd, she might pop up again in say rural Tennessee or other low cost of living area doing something like breeding DHH x Walkers for saddleseat or something equally odd. Out in Montana breeding the ultimate outfitter trail horse DHH x QH x draft (because those high knees power you over dead fall). Or something.

[Simkie]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

About the last mare in these photos… the chestnut.

Is she bred?

I don’t think she’s got anything on her sales list that’s chestnut–this is probably a recipient mare?

[Scribbler]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I think too we can assume that if K has only shown some of her horses, she’s shown the least skinny. So what she’s showing is the best of the bunch, bad as they look.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

That’s what I’m worried about. There’s a theoretical Nabab de Reve embryo in a recipient, and it’s due in March 2024.

[Scribbler]

@Simkie

I don’t see colors listed on her FB sales post.

Where btw there have been no horses removed or marked sold. Despite what she says on this thread

[Simkie]

@Scribbler

I don’t see colors listed on her FB sales post.

I sure do.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@K_VanOlst

Also… the first paint mare of this bunch.

It’s not Ivanka. That’s the third one - you can tell by the belly marking.

Is the first one “Never Have I Ever KG” ? Per her sales list, that mare was born 05/2018, and is from the same colorful “Paula” dam line as Ivanka.

“Never Have I Ever” is listed as in foal to Margie Engel’s stallion, Royce. The add doesn’t say when she is due, but apparently this particular paint DHH mare is carrying the foal - no ET or ICSI involved.

This mare looks like she needs adequate nutrition ASAP if she’s also currently carrying a 2024 foal. Poor thing.

[phoenixrises]

I come from this world, did arab, morgans and SB growing up. Mostly they aren’t like that though, at the show, they’re purposefully made just on a razors edge and wild eyed, and pretty much as soon as your done, they’re head down, give me a treat. They tolerate way more than my WB would with tail sets (morgans (bustles) and SB, full tail set), and no turnout. Honestly you just get used to letting them be on the end of the lead be a dope and let them do what they’re supposed to do! rack on…

[Scribbler]

@Simkie

Is this a screenshot? Because I don’t see this post up right now.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

It’s up. It’s just a few days old now, and she has all the semen for sale listed first, so that’s all you see if you scroll on through her public feed. You have to click to see the full sales list with descriptions as well.

[Scribbler]

Ok, found it, thanks!

Looks like nothing sold yet.

[SamBee]

@Kasheare

The pasture had nothing to begin with. And no I will never rely on pasture to feed a horse. I feed them exactly how we fed back home with the same hay.

Tell me do you honestly look at the pictures you just posted and think they depict horses in good condition? They are just more evidence that whether through ignorance, cruelty, greed, or all of the above, the horses in your care are mistreated.

I believe at one point you said you were getting out if the breeding businesses altogether. That is an excellent decision.

[Simkie]

@Scribbler

Is this a screenshot? Because I don’t see this post up right now.

That’s kind of a weird question but yes, of course? I captured that info as screenshot from her FB page like 20 minutes ago.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

And… this grey caught my eye. It looks like a mare who is in foal to me. But there aren’t any grey mares who are in foal on the sales list. Sooooo… I’m wondering if this one is also a recipient and carrying the other Nabab de Reve ICSI embryo?

One of these recipients is due in March. The other in July. If the earlier chestnut and this grey are both those recipient mares, there is still a good bit of time to start feeding them properly while they are carrying these foals. I see quite a bit of rib and a lack of top line on this grey… that’s concerning. She might be in tough shape by the time she foals and starts lactating. Please Kate… do better, and FEED these mares more.