I would be interested to know people’s opinions on this mare with respect to being a sport horse broodmare: https://canterusa.org/horses/listings/the-grange-2010-bay-mare-16-1h/ . Would be interested in hearing from the thoroughbred pedigree experts in terms of how her breeding is for sport.
I don’t like her conformation. She is very straight behind with an upright shoulder and hip angle. If she had raced and done well, she would be used as a broodmare for racing. Given the price, i strongly suspect something is wrong with her. I would want to see her jumping under saddle - a trotting video is not much to go on.
I can’t answer as far as pedigree. If she really is sound and stays sound after the amount of work she has done, that would be a bonus.
Those are some unflattering pictures. Oy vey. I was going to say something similar to @4horses , but I think the pictures are just that bad. Video isn’t much better, but I bet that girl can MOVE when feeling good and set loose.
There’s a lot to like about her on paper.
Broken Vow is certainly one of the most “sporty” modern TB stallions. Consistently gets nice looking/moving horses with good minds for sport.
Deputy Minister comes up again and again in the pedigrees of successful eventers.
Nijinksy inbreeding is a pro in my book. A lot of sport type there.
Her family gets a lot of runners, which is always encouraging. It doesn’t tell you much, but it tells you more than the complete unknown you get from production records with large numbers of unraced horses.
Really, there’s nothing discouraging on paper. Added bonus is that she’s a proven stakes-placed hurdler, so you know she has jump. Although I can’t help but wonder what happened. She started refusing the hurdles two races in a row, then came back to the dirt track with new ownership. Pain or… ??? Can’t help but wonder if she was just a race-filler as of late or if someone was actually encouraged by something they saw in her. Either way, she has to be a fairly low maintenance critter to survive on crumbs all these years
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Thanks for the info Texarkana. I agree that those are some exceptionally unflattering photos but I suspect if stood up better she would be quite nice. I did find her race history interesting, and figured if she is actually sound it would be pretty impressive. The only name I knew in her pedigree was Deputy minister as I have ridden a couple mares by him and they certainly had some jump.
She is one that I was a little afraid to post and ask about because there is something about her that I quite like, but yet I have been looking at the pics second guessing myself because they are so exceptionally unflattering…
The pictures are not flattering, and she needs better farrier work, but I think in person I would like her very much.
I suspect from the video that she would be a very nice mover, if allowed to move out, and you know she jumps!
She is worth a trip to go see.
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Even though she isn’t properly stood up in her “conformation” photo, her hind legs are found in many, if not most, Fappiano lines. If she has been able to stand up to jumps racing with those legs and raced five years, they couldn’t have hindered her too much. From my experience, that kind of leg (and my horse has both Deputy Minister and Fappiano) can lead to early hock arthritis, so you have to consider that. Otherwise her pedigree is better than decent. She has a double to Wild Risk through Gana Facil and Blushing Groom. We know that Le Fabuleux could pass on the Wild Risk pasterns (short and upright), but Wild Risk is also one of the historically great chasing and eventing lines, so since her pasterns are not straight and upright, I’d say the risk of that would be low. She’s got Alydar, a great jumping line,through Alydeed. Because of Kanakee Miss, I wouldn’t say that the Alydar jump is the one that she got, 23-b is a very good mare family.
On the jumps racing business, she did not finish her last two hurdle races in 2016–charts say she was DNF because she refused. After that, she was a flat racer.
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I guess I am just pickier than most. 
She would be a hard no for me. Among other conformation faults, she is build so poorly behind. I can’t see her ever being able to get those hind legs underneath herself. Having a good pedigree is nice, but a mare with poor conformation increases the risk of producing foals with poor conformation and potential lameness problems.
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I hadn’t noticed how peculiar her loin connection is. I don’t think I would dare consider her as a broodmare with those angles in the rear.
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I’m not sure those angles are “real” though. I only say that because her hind end looks better in the first picture and different to me in the video. It’s a bad angle in the video, though.
It’s not like I’d say “go buy her now!” I’d say “there’s nothing negative on paper so it wouldn’t hurt to check her out in person.”
Obviously with any broodmare (or any horse for that matter), the animal in the flesh is the biggest part of the equation to determine suitability.
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I think this mare is worth a look.
This is a good example of how sometimes a picture can be misleading. The horse in the video looks completely different to me than the horse in the first photo, and the horse in the first photo looks different than the horse in the second.
If you have been paying attention to eventing, you would or should like this mare on paper. BV horses are usually picked up quickly where I am, because they tend to be very sporty and great movers. There’s another mare I also like at WV-CA. That mare is Grand Offer (who I would be very interested in for broodmare duties).
If you go, I might go look at both. I think Grand Offer could be a real diamond in the rough and would be curious to see her move. I love her pedigree, personally.
The Grange’s sire Broken Vow is universally liked by eventers. He makes better than average moving horses consistently. Great gallops and jump. Even trotting down the shed-row I think you can see she has much more suspension than the average TB, and will be a big mover once let down. The linebreeding to Nijinsky wouldn’t hurt, from a substance and from a movement perspective. Nijinsky is very nice for eventers, good movers with great jump IME. Her damside has a few names most eventers like to see in a pedigree, and it’s nice to see Alydeed up “so close” when he’s usually buried by now in pedigree pages. This is a mare you know can jump - it’s just up to you to figure out why she stopped; change of ownership? soundness (possibly LH?).
Regarding her angles - I have reason to believe the pictures are unflattering. My only quibble with her is her croup but I don’t think it is as bad as the first picture looks. Her loin connection is fine. When you watch her trot by she looks much more balanced behind. She has good bone and substance, a great shoulder, a good neck connection, and is a decent mover for being track-bound. Her LH stifle hitch I’d want to investigate.
Regarding her being straight behind… it is and isn’t a flaw. Straight behind is seen in so many lines, both TB and WB… take a look at the WBFSH rankings and most of those stallions are very straight behind. Straightness has several benefits for sport: better limb folding over fences being the primary benefit, but straight horses also tend to be better movers. This mare is not what I would call too straight behind, but your mileage may vary.
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Agree on the poor pictures. At least have her eyes open on a head shot! Other than her head turned away, they do stand her up properly in the one conformation shot. You never really see her eyes which I like to see. Her topline is not harmonious. Hooves look like they need some TLC but big enough. Neck looks like it has good length. But the shoulder and croup angles are steep and not the same. If you divide her in 1/2 tts almost like you have 2 different types of horses. The front and the back. For jumping you’d like to see her free jump. In the video she looks hitchy behind.
I too like that she is a stakes placed hurdler, at some distance too (2 1/4 miles). Her dam is 1/2 to a stakes horse who set the new track record at Presque Isle for 1 5/8 miles. This is also the immediate family of Vicar and Astronomer Royal.
Gosh you guys are way more trusting than I am that there may be something there other than what appears to be there in the photos. She is a gasping no in my book. You can’t really get a feel for conformation or movement from the video either except to say that she has so much action behind that it almost looks like she has stringhalt. If she walked in front of me I may not necessarily avert my eyes but I wouldn’t go out of my way to look at her for a broodmare prospect.
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Is that really the same horse in the pics and the video? It looks like the same handler in both; yet he’s taller than the horse in the pics and it seems to loom over him in the video. Granted, the camera angle couldn’t have been worse than if another horse took the video!
I agree with @Laurierace - there is some odd movement going on in her back end. Could be something as simple as new shoes that feel weird. But I doubt it. 
She’s just not well built, either. I might buy her as a prospect if that hind end thing checked out clear. Wouldn’t breed her.
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Nice catch on the Grand Offer mare! Inbred to Sea-Bird, Damascus, Hail to Reason, and Northern Dancer from the amazing Patelin family! Is there a direct link to her?
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Her action behind, to me, is pretty classic for “tracky”… Either way stringhalt isn’t heritable and wouldn’t be a detractor for a broodmare.
Of course, you want a vet to check it. PPE always unless you like taking gambles, which any OTTB is in my book.
@SPRINGBORO there isn’t a direct link on their website, sadly. But I don’t think she has gotten much interest. She looks like she was just pulled out of her stall, possibly mid-nap - not flattering photos.
Hopefully this FB link works of her:
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From my personal experience, snapping flattering photos of a horse on the track is an art. These are volunteers and not professionals when it comes to taking pictures. They often are pressed for time and/or have a lot of horses to get through, and snap what they can. Most times you are stopped while you are taking a listing by a trainer, and asked to take pictures of another horse too. It’s very rare you have someone (at least when I volunteered) who has a whole shedrow ready, horses spic & span and presentable for the perfect photo op. We’re really lucky we have volunteer people who are great at it (for instance, FLF always has great, fairly accurate photos representative of the actual horse) - but I still count it as very lucky we have people going out and snapping pictures in the first place.
In 20 plus years of training race horse I never had a single one that looked “tracky” behind like that. Not one.
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I completely believe you, too – but I think that’s because you’re not an average trainer. Not everyone has the same quality program and care you do.
I see that kind of movement often, unfortunately. There’s several of them that “tracky” on FLF’s listings right now. I saw it a lot in person at Suffolk too. It’s not ideal, and is definitely a symptom of soreness. IME usually stifle or hock area.
Something is off with her moving! Looks sore or has some sort of injury! My mare moved just like that when she got beat up by some new aggressive horse in pasture! It took 4 weeks of just hand walking for it to go away! My vet believed it to be soreness plus possible bruising of bone.
@beowulf, I know I’m hijacking this thread a bit, but speaking of steeplechase horses, did you see Megstone? She’s by Stroll, but her dam, Gold Mitten by leading steeplechase sire Waquoit, is a graded stakes winner-over hurdles who set the course record. She is also a full sib to good hurdler Gold Quoit, who himself set a course record. Inbred to Ribot and First Landing and Mahmoud. I found an old catalog page, and the dam Gold Glove and her two 1/2 sisters all set or equaled track records.
Oh, those pictures of her are awful too. Just saying…
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