[QUOTE=candyappy;8808876]
I was wondering that too?
I am sorry but if your horse is uncomfortable for 5 weeks out of every trim than maybe you need a new farrier?
My horses are both barefoot. They are sound on all our terrain from day 1 of their trim. That is how it should be.[/QUOTE]
I agree. My horse can go down the gravel drive a few minutes after a trim. Sounds like your trimmer is taking off sole and if you are getting flares, they are not being trimmed properly.
I boarded with someone who had a barefoot trail horse. The horse was sore for the first 2-7 days after every trim. The owner lived with it.
Another boarder advised the first to talk to her farrier. Farrier said “I can’t help this horse without putting shoes on.”
I asked the first boarder to think about this; if the horse is 100% sound for the work required on the surfaces used 80-90% of the time and is only sore immediately following a trim, WHY would shoes be needed? Then I recommended a good farrier I know and at the first visit explained in detail the few days sore after each trim business. The good farrier thought about and said “Okay, let’s see what we can do.” The horse had zero sore days after that trim and subsequent trims by that farrier.
So OP, I say to you something similar. If the horse is fine on the footing late in the trim cycle, speak to the farrier. Perhaps a less aggressive trim is called for. Perhaps a more frequent trim is called for. Perhaps you need to learn how to use a rasp to do a little pre-emptive flare control once or twice between trims. Perhaps the farrier will have more ideas. I too say let the farrier make suggestions for solutions before you offer any ideas.
If you can get her comfortable on those trails sooner after each trim, the stimulation from riding those trails will help your horse develop a stronger, tougher foot.
Good luck!
We don’t get the flares until after week 6 or 7. The way to control the flares is to stay on a regular trimming cycle. We’ve got that under control, more or less. If she had been trimmed at week 6, there would be no flares. Right now, she’s at week 8. If I let her go to week 12, I think there would be damage to the hoof wall.
And as far as “uncomfortable,” well, that’s an interesting concept, because it is so relative.
My horse isn’t exactly “uncomfortable” for five weeks of her trim. She does just fine on the gravel with her boots. So if we think of her as a horse that “needs” hoof protection, whether boots or shoes, then she is not uncomfortable. She’s only uncomfortable if we think of her as a horse who “should” be able to go barefoot all the time.
My revelation this month has been that her feet get much tougher after they have grown out. But by this point they are also unbalanced, and starting to flare at the quarters in front. That’s because we have gone well past our scheduled trim date.
The past couple of years, we’ve been focusing mainly on fixing and then preventing the mechanical separation of the hoof wall. We’ve also been working at keeping the hind feet level (a whole other story) as she pronates back there. We’ve had good vet advice on both these issues, from a vet who is also a farrier, and that’s led the farrier to slightly more aggressive trims.
Maybe we need “smaller” trims but more frequently. Maybe I need to learn to bevel the edge of the hoof between trims (farrier, vet and trimmer friend all have suggested this; I’ve been reluctant to mess with the feet at all) so that there can be more wall without separation. Maybe farrier can take out less bar. Maybe farrier has been taking out sole along with bar.
[QUOTE=RedHorses;8810210]
I boarded with someone who had a barefoot trail horse. The horse was sore for the first 2-7 days after every trim. The owner lived with it.
Another boarder advised the first to talk to her farrier. Farrier said “I can’t help this horse without putting shoes on.”
I asked the first boarder to think about this; if the horse is 100% sound for the work required on the surfaces used 80-90% of the time and is only sore immediately following a trim, WHY would shoes be needed? Then I recommended a good farrier I know and at the first visit explained in detail the few days sore after each trim business. The good farrier thought about and said “Okay, let’s see what we can do.” The horse had zero sore days after that trim and subsequent trims by that farrier.
So OP, I say to you something similar. If the horse is fine on the footing late in the trim cycle, speak to the farrier. Perhaps a less aggressive trim is called for. Perhaps a more frequent trim is called for. Perhaps you need to learn how to use a rasp to do a little pre-emptive flare control once or twice between trims. Perhaps the farrier will have more ideas. I too say let the farrier make suggestions for solutions before you offer any ideas.
If you can get her comfortable on those trails sooner after each trim, the stimulation from riding those trails will help your horse develop a stronger, tougher foot.
Good luck![/QUOTE]
Hey, I was just typing similar thoughts to these at the same time!
She does go out in the boots right after her trim, so she is getting at least the weight of landing on the harder surface as stimulation, if not the actual gravel.
My mare is barefoot and generally comfortable right after a trim. If she is trimmed barefoot by someone who removes or “cleans up” her sole, she is not comfortable on gravel after the trim or for much of that cycle. With my current barefoot trimmer, she is comfortable right after a trim and throughout a cycle. If they don’t have a lot of sole to begin with, it makes a huge difference.
I would not find spacing trimming out to be a solution due to the flares you are seeing.
The quarters are not weight bearing structures of the foot. You can keep the wall beveled here without affecting where she’s carrying the most weight.
My farrier is teaching me how to bevel the quarters by rasping at a 45 degree angle when I see issues start to arise (which can happen with my horse within 6 weeks). Sometimes, I do a good job. Sometimes, I think I’m a little to conservative and he’ll self trim off a chunk. Anyway, the farrier said the key to rasping out the flaring or chipping part without weakening the hoof wall is to hit it from the 45 degree angle.
If you can keep enough wall at the toe and heel to give her more comfort, you should be able to bevel at the quarters fairly aggressively without really affecting how the sole is contacting the ground. My horse isn’t going to be comfortable on much gravel without shoes or boots ever but if yours is with a certain amount of hoof growth, then you should be able to get her comfortable all of the time.
[QUOTE=IPEsq;8810258]
The quarters are not weight bearing structures of the foot. You can keep the wall beveled here without affecting where she’s carrying the most weight.
My farrier is teaching me how to bevel the quarters by rasping at a 45 degree angle when I see issues start to arise (which can happen with my horse within 6 weeks). Sometimes, I do a good job. Sometimes, I think I’m a little to conservative and he’ll self trim off a chunk. Anyway, the farrier said the key to rasping out the flaring or chipping part without weakening the hoof wall is to hit it from the 45 degree angle.
If you can keep enough wall at the toe and heel to give her more comfort, you should be able to bevel at the quarters fairly aggressively without really affecting how the sole is contacting the ground. My horse isn’t going to be comfortable on much gravel without shoes or boots ever but if yours is with a certain amount of hoof growth, then you should be able to get her comfortable all of the time.[/QUOTE]
yes, this sounds like what I should be doing: rasping myself.
As far as wall at the toe, well she wears her does down quite a bit, but this doesn’t give her any problems, far as I can tell.
Any chance you can post good pictures? Many quarter flares are due to underrun heels, or bars that are growing too quickly (or not trimmed enough).
The farrier doesn’t trim sole per se, but does trim down the bars. And if the bars pop up again during the month, maresy is uncomfortable in her boots.
Have him/her show you how to trim the bars, and get a good knife. They are REALLY easy to trim 
I would say that her regular footing where she lives (rubber mats and hogsfuel) isn’t going to build a rock crusher foot. Those are both pretty cushy.
If she is comfortable in boots, use the boots. I have my mare trimmed every 5 weeks so I can use boots. I work my horse in boots about 6 months of the year. Our arena isn’t watered (it is worked regularly) so can get dry, dry ,dry and hard. It also doesn’t have a prepared base and we have a rock migration issue. So, I slap her boots on to do arena work from about May until October or November when we usually start getting some rain. Once there is moisture in the ground there is a bit of cushion and the rocks settle down and viola, no boots needed.
I would guess that as long as she lives on relatively soft footing, she would be a little tender on rocks until she grows more of a foot.
So I would just make her trims more frequent and use the boots.
Susan
Don’t you optimize the foot of any horse by trimming to anatomical correctness and then protecting the trim as required?
G.
IMO your choices are to have the farrier trim less on a shorter cycle or do some work yourself. I do the latter, otherwise my trimmer would be coming every 5 weeks. I show a lot in the summer and that wouldn’t be possible if my mare was sore after trims.
It’s pretty easy to keep the flare and heels under control. Bar work can be trickier, but still very possible for an owner.
It’s summer, good grass, feet are growing like crazy. I get flares too. Normal for this time of year, need blacksmith to come out more frequently.
OP, your horse sound pretty typical to me. Instead of scheduling on a timeline, schedule on a “need” line. More often when feet are growing good, less when they are not. But u still should have a conversation wrt your horse’s soreness right after a trim.
On a six-week trim schedule, my barefoot horse starts getting weirdness. On a four-week schedule with a good trimmer, her feet seem straighter, bigger, more symmetrical, and just beefier. I call them “rhinocerous feet” as they just look fatter and more solid.
Also, another vote for rolling the quarters more, at trims, so that there is just the merest arch at the quarters at the time of the trim. They aren’t load-bearing, so extra wall there is just getting in the way.
I’m another vote for it sounds like your farrier is trimming too much. If you really like him/her, maybe ask if trimmer will come more often but do a more refined trim each time.
Or, there is nothing at all wrong with putting on boots when your horse needs them. Her current trim is not a problem if your trimmer can’t or won’t change things, and if booting works for you and your horse.
I have had a previous barefoot trimmer that left my horses sore after each trim. She didn’t trim any sole but she sure was aggressive with the walls. Found another trimmer that does a really great barefoot type trim and is also a farrier, just in case I ever need shoes for any reason. With this trimmer my horses are not sore after a trim, and feet are beautifully balanced and seem to stay that way for longer. I have my horses trimmed on a 4 to 5 week schedule, depending on time of year.
I’m going to recommend, again, that you get a 2nd opinion on the trim. But, if the horse is only comfortable after it grows so much foot that it is starting to flare - it sounds to me like a horse that needs hoof protection.
It is possible that the farrier is trimming too aggressively, but I would not think that would only start to improve after 5 weeks. If the horse needs protection for 4-5 weeks…it sounds like it probably needs boots or shoes.
I suppose there is a chance that keeping a horse on a harder surface may “toughen” the horse’s foot a little bit. My farrier personally thinks this is mostly BS, and often is actually the horse learning to compensate rather than being “tougher.”
The bottom line is that most of us would love to keep all our horses barefoot (it’s easier, cheaper, and less chance of lost shoes)…but many horses need protection. You can change the trim, but the genetics are pretty much unchangeable. If the trim is ok, I’d put shoes on the horse and you will both enjoy riding more.
Sounds like she’s being trimmed to often,mine get done every 10 to 12 weeks farrier just files off rough edges. Something is wrong if horse is sore after trim,i find the less their feet are trimmed the better they do.
Farrier never pares sole out so protection is left in place,if soles being pared out all the time that makes them sore. My horse’s feet aren’t pretty but there functional and sound.
Can use dura sole to toughen up feet works wonders.
5 weeks might be to short of trim cycle for your horse. I honestly find the less i have mine trimmed the better they do. Feet aren’t pretty but their functional and sound on all surfaces.
Soles are never pared out that leaves them protection,even bars are left alone unless they get too tall. Other wise soles are never touched with a hoof knife. Has made for sound barefoot horses.
Posting photos.
And, yes, I know this horse is due for a trim! That’s the whole point of my thread, that she gets much more comfortable on gravel late in the trim cycle.
These photos are 8 weeks from the last trim. For the first six weeks, horse was ridden walk/trot on sand/gravel with Renegade boots on the front, and barefoot in the hogfuel arena, with no problems. For the past two weeks, horse was ridden barefoot walk/trot on all surfaces, with no problems. I stopped using the boots because they don’t fit after her hooves grow out. I don’t know how long after her last trim it would have taken for her to be fine barefoot on the sand/gravel, since I didn’t try it in any consistent way until she outgrew her boots.
When I started barefoot two weeks ago, I think it took a few days for her to get completely comfortable, but I wasn’t keeping careful notes on this.
Background:
We’ve been dealing with two specific issues in the past couple of years. Both times, I’ve called in a good vet who is also a trained farrier, to consult with my own farrier. Both times the results have been good.
First, about a year and a half ago: dealing with persistent mechanical hoof/wall separation on the quarters of all four feet, aggravated by a hot dry summer, and a longish gap between trims. Pebbles were going up the white line and making the problem worse. Vet recommended rather aggressive resectioning, cutting away all the loose hoof wall, several inches up in some cases. This was scary ugly to look at, but did not seem to bother the horse. The new wall grew in clean and tight. There was never any white line disease or laminitis involved. After her flares were resolved, I started using the Renegade boots.
Second, a few months ago: consulted vet again on horse’s tendency to pronate with rear feet, that is land on the outside of her hooves. This causes hoof to wear and grow unevenly, and this imbalance then makes the pronation worse. The stress of the twist on landing has been causing windpuffs in her ankles, and sometimes we think a bit of reluctance to canter under saddle when her feet are particularly unbalanced.
Vet did a tight trim on the rear feet, focusing on pulling back the toe and the heel. Farrier copied his trim four weeks later (last trim). This was a slightly “aggressive” trim and did leave her a bit tentative behind on gravel for the first week. When I look at the feet now, they are a bit asymmetric still. The outer half of the foot is wider than the inner half. But the wear pattern is more even than in the past.
I also see, looking at the these photos, that there is not really any weight-bearing wall at the quarters. The sole is more concave than the photos show, and the outer edge of the sole has hardened up into a weight-bearing edge.
My big worry, given her history, is about the fraying of the white line and the start of flare, with pebbles going up the white line.
Her front toes, though, which wear snubbed back, are much tighter. So maybe the solution really would be to keep a file on hand, and rasp the quarters in the same manner, as one of the posters above said a 45 degree angle.
For 8 weeks, that really doesn’t look so bad, especially the fronts. Heels on the hinds are worse. When did the flaring/separation start? Week 6? My horse would be best with a 4-5 week trim but he goes 6 right now because that’s the schedule my preferred farrier has. He said if I get some small gravel in the white line to dig it out as best as I can with a hoof pick and try beveling the edge some more. I think it’s just part of living on the kind of ground we have.
It also not unusual for them to wear one side more than the other. Horses aren’t always biomechanically exactly straight. But it’s a reason to trim sooner than later to keep the overgrown (less worn) areas in check.
Maybe we need to see pictures post trim to compare. These pictures don’t really show why she is sore right after other than she hasn’t grown a crazy amount of foot at 8 weeks. Try trimming less hoof more often and learn to maintain the quarters in between if necessary.
Her feet don’t even look like the need a trim just smooth rough edges. If that’s all the foot, she grows in eight weeks,no wonder she’s sore being trimmed every 5 weeks.
If mine were trimmed every 5 weeks they’d be sore/ lame all the time. All that’s been done on my horses in last 3 month is file rough edges smooth.
No wonder people have trouble with horses being sore ,their being trimmed way to much.
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