Optimizing the Barefoot Horse. Update: photos added page 2, #37

[Scribbler]

Maresy gets a good barefoot trim. She lives on stall mats and a hog fuel run-out, and works in a hogfuel arena, and on groomed sandy gravel trails. The trails are on the edge of what she’s truly comfortable moving out on, so she gets Renegade boots on her front feet for the trails, and everything is good. She does not have thrush, she does not have subclinical laminitis.

After about week 5 of the trim cycle, the Renegade boots don’t fit. But after about week 5, she gets more and more comfortable totally barefoot on the trails. Then she gets trimmed at around week 6, and the boots go back on. This time around, farrier has been distracted, and we are coming to the end of week 8. And for the past couple of weeks, she has been fantastic on the trails, barefoot: big springy trot. And all in all, if I could ride her barefoot everywhere, all the time, I would. It’s very subtle, but I do prefer her gait barefoot.

Also, I had got thinking that the current footing on the trails would always be just a bit beyond her capacity, so I’m excited that suddenly, it isn’t.

She can always walk barefoot on the trails no problem, and she can often do a slow trot on parts of the trails, then sucks back on less comfy places. But the last couple of nights, she’s been moving right out, totally happy and forward, big working trot.

At this point, her front feet have got a very small amount of wall, less than what a horseshoe would give, and visible bars. This is where it is tempting to let the trim go another week or two, since she is moving so well! But also, at this point, she is starting to develop a bit of flare, as gravel gets up the white line and her hooves want to self-trim. As this progresses, it will start to make her sore. We got into a lot of trouble with this two summers ago, and it took a winter of corrective trimming to fix the mechanical separation, which went quite high up both back and front hooves.

So she needs a good tight trim and mustang roll. But once she loses this extra foot, she will be more sensitive to the gravel again.

I’m discussing this with my farrier, but also wondering how other people with good barefoot horses work around this?

Don’t have photos, can get some today.

[findeight]

Hog fuel?

[candyappy]

[QUOTE=findeight;8808836]
Hog fuel?[/QUOTE]

I was wondering that too?

I am sorry but if your horse is uncomfortable for 5 weeks out of every trim than maybe you need a new farrier?

My horses are both barefoot. They are sound on all our terrain from day 1 of their trim. That is how it should be.

[dog_amp_horsemom]

I agree - they should be sound from day 1 or day 2. you might need to use durasole to toughen the sole or figure out what is going on.

[Lisa_Preston]

hog fuel= shredded bark, not the pretty gardening stuff but leftover from making trees into 2x4s at a lumber mill.
And yeah, pony should be comfy w/ a trim, not something that takes a month+ to grow into, especially on a groomed, sandy trail.

[GraceLikeRain]

It sounds like the farrier is trimming too aggressively if you’re finding that the best riding and comfort is coming only at the tail end of the cycle.

[JB]

If at 8 weeks she’s got wall height less than the thickness of a shoe, and it takes her about 5 weeks post trim to be really sound on that footing, it seems obvious the trimmer is trimming her walls much too short.

Remember that as feet grow, they grow forward, heels and toes. It’s not necessarily a matter of letting the trims go longer IF the toes and heels need to be addressed, but a matter of trimming less wall height, but still making sure toes and heels come back where they belong.

And it doesn’t matter if the trimmer thinks her feet should have X amount of wall height. If the horse says that’s not comfortable, then leave more.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=candyappy;8808876]
I was wondering that too?

I am sorry but if your horse is uncomfortable for 5 weeks out of every trim than maybe you need a new farrier?

My horses are both barefoot. They are sound on all our terrain from day 1 of their trim. That is how it should be.[/QUOTE]

Well, I will agree that the horse should not be uncomfortable on day 1 of their trim - but many horses are not comfortable without shoes, no matter what the trim is.

So, I agree that it sounds like this horse could be trimmed too short, if she seems suddenly very sound on gravel at 5 weeks. But it doesn’t necessarily mean that all horses should be sound on all terrain when barefoot.

I’d consider getting a 2nd opinion on the trim before doing anything else.

[Palm_Beach]

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that all horses should be sound on all terrain when barefoot. I agree that is sounds like the farrier is causing the problem. I see soreness when I get a horse off the track and pull shoes, but once the horse sounds up, it stays sound even immediately after a trim.

[katyb]

Is your trimmer paring sole?

[starsandsun]

Same question as katyb. That would make the horse quite sore until sole thickens again.

[Katy_Watts]

A good hoof care provider adapts the trim to what is comfortable to the individual horse. Not the other way around. The goal is a sound horse. Not someones idea of what an ideal foot should look like.

[goodhors]

Agree, sounds like he trims the hoof to be shod, which is too short for going barefooted.

Can you have him just “smooth her up, address the flare” but leave wall, heel bars length and more sole on her? Sole should NOT give to pressure when he is done. No flinching if pressed hard with your fingers. Sole depth protects the coffin bone from the things on the ground like rocks, hard soil, so impact is absorbed in the DEEPER sole. When sole is too thin, it can’t do any protecting so horse moves sore, is gimpy on gravel or hard ground.

If horse has some wall length she should be able to wear it off when barefoot. Self-trimming is expected, which is why you leave wall, bars, a fraction longer in a trim for a barefoot horse. Horse wears her hooves to make herself comfortable, so Farrier needs to also remove wall to keep horse comfortable as she wore it down. No corrective trimming to straighten legs is allowed on an adult horse that is not interfering.

I would try talking to the Farrier, tell him/her that horse is sore after being trimmed. But with more time, horse grows enough hoof/sole to go bootless. You would like horse trimmed so it can go bootless all the time. So what can they do differently to get that to happen? If you have not ever mentioned soreness, accepted that as “normal” the Farrier may not know there is a problem with the trim they do on THIS horse. See what happens after talking, next trim results. If no change, I would look for another Farrier that can trim without soring my horse, needing to wait for soreness to grow out.

Horse should be usable as quick as Farrier sets down the last hoof, barefoot or shod. You should be able to go for a ride or go to show right away with no issues in the horse. We have done that for years on a wide variety of horses and ponies. Accepting less in a trim is doing your horse a disservice in causing it pain that does NOT have to happen.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8808990]
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that all horses should be sound on all terrain when barefoot. [/QUOTE]

@candyappy;8808876

My horses are both barefoot. They are sound on all our terrain from day 1 of their trim. That is how it should be.

That is what this sounds like to me - and I would love it if my shod mare could be sound on all terrain on any day of her trim. But she is not. So she wears shoes.

I agree that the trim sounds suspect, but I would not agree that a good trim = sound on all terrain. It is possible that the OPs horse could use a better trim AND also hoof protection (shoes or boots).

[Palm_Beach]

From the original post: “The trails are on the edge of what she’s truly comfortable moving out on, so she gets Renegade boots on her front feet for the trails, and everything is good.”

OP, this is something you should mention to your farrier. He might just need to leave just a little bit of sole. Or, he might have an enlightening discussion with you about what he is doing and why. She might just need boots on rocky trails. It would not be unusual.

[JB]

IMHO the conversation with the farrier should be “I noticed I need to use boots on this footing until about 4-5 weeks, then she’s nicely sound, and this last time when it went 8 weeks she was sound the whole time. What are your thoughts on that?”

Yes it’s a bit of baiting, but I want the trimmer to tell me the right answer, not me tell him/her what to do.

That said, anyone I would use would know I have some level of knowledge and I would say “so I think we should try leaving a bit more wall on the trim and see how that works”. I actually have one whose walls need to stay a bit higher than textbook.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=S1969;8809328]
That is what this sounds like to me - and I would love it if my shod mare could be sound on all terrain on any day of her trim. But she is not. So she wears shoes.

I agree that the trim sounds suspect, but I would not agree that a good trim = sound on all terrain. It is possible that the OPs horse could use a better trim AND also hoof protection (shoes or boots).[/QUOTE]

+1

G.

[Chestnut_Mare1]

My mare is barefoot too and uses renegades when needed. She has been barefoot for several months and was really sore after the second corrective trim to the point where she was off for 3 weeks. I discussed it with my trimmer and she agrees that too much wall was removed. Next trim she is was at day one.

We have tiny trims every 4 weeks. That keeps the feet from self trimming and causing issues.

I have also worked really hard on conditioning her feet on rocky ground and pavement. To do this I take her for in-hand walks on those surfaces and she lives on a part-gravel paddock. Also check her feed to make sure you cut out as much sugar as possible.

Talk to your trimmer - they should be open to hearing your concerns and willing to work with you.

[chicamux]

Your horse lives on soft footing. A small part of her day or week is out on somewhat barder footing. She probably just doesn’t spend enough hours a day on harder footing to grow a tougher sole. Options : change the footing that she lives on, change her soles, use boots to trail ride. You can sort of change her soles using a product called Hoof Armor. It actually is an applied layer that covers the soles. Or you could try sole paints or Keratex. I think you might find the Hoof Armor does the trick.

[Scribbler]

@goodhors;8809323

Agree, sounds like he trims the hoof to be shod, which is too short for going barefooted.

Can you have him just “smooth her up, address the flare” but leave wall, heel bars length and more sole on her?

thanks for all the thoughtful replies! Yes, discussing this with the farrier.

Here is the conundrum: when maresy grows wall, she starts to get flare in the quarters. Not in the toe; she wears herself a nice mustang roll in the toe, which stays very tight and durable.

If we don’t take off the flaring wall in the quarters, the flare gets worse, like the end of a split hair travelling upwards. So taking off the flare in the quarters means taking back the wall in the quarters too. That’s my puzzle: how to leave wall when the wall is starting to flare and self-trim?

btw, the hind feet (which never have boots) have no wall at all; they wear smooth.

The farrier doesn’t trim sole per se, but does trim down the bars. And if the bars pop up again during the month, maresy is uncomfortable in her boots.

The trails in question were resurfaced by the parks crew a year or so ago, and they did it without consulting the equestrian center, and used a somewhat more gravelly top surface than in the past. The paths have been giving all the barefoot horse trouble since then (ironically, the horses that go on the trails tend to be barefoot, and the horses that only train in the indoor arena tend to wear shoes … go figure). I got Renegade boots, and they work fine. I was just accepting that maresy needed protection on this level of gravel. The boots are a bigger initial investment, but over their lifespan far more cost-effective than shoes. Plus I don’t need them to ride in the arena, and she isn’t wearing them at all when she’s resting.

So maresy isn’t “sore after every trim,” since my assumption is that she needs boots to trot out fast and forward on the gravel.

It’s just that this month, with the postponed trim, I’ve been pleasantly surprised that she’s so comfortable on the gravel. So trying to figure out how to maintain this comfort but also have her hooves trimmed up for balance and damage.