Orchard Grass Hay for IR horse?

[fjordmom]

@NaturallyHappy

Can you talk more about the citrulline? If you’d rather PM me, go ahead. I’m really interested. Thank you.

Ditto. I’m interested too.

[NaturallyHappy]

@fjordmom

Ditto. I’m interested too.

I just learned citrulline converts to arginine, which is helpful to blood flow in their feet. At least, I think I got that right. I ordered Laminox from Uckele.

[lindseyjo11]

@Snowdenfarm

Only until they got hungry enough, hahaha. Seriously, they don’t turn their noses up for long if there is nothing else available. Right now, my mare is back home after being in FL on hay that I could not test but must have been high sugar as she acted like it was cotton candy. Now that we are back, I am using up the last few bales I had of 2018 first cutting and she made the switch without any pickiness. She has been on this hay for three years (except when in FL). She is dry lotted right now, so it is that or starve. She gets free choice (about 20 lbs) of that hay, 5 lbs of Triple Crown Balanced Timothy Cubes and supps to balance out the old hay. Her ribs are covered, her coat is shiny and her hooves are perfect – so I am happy.

Haha looks like I need to do some tough love then! I’m wondering if the refusal was because I mixed a slice of the alfalfa in. So once that was gone they just didn’t eat anything else. They have access to the barn and a dry lot 24/7, so that shouldn’t be a problem for me. My horse has slight rib showing, but any weight I put on goes straight to his neck or rump as fat deposits. Frustrating, but the vet told me keeping him thinner was best. He does maintain weight really well, as long as he’s not being prissy about his hay lol

[fjordmom]

Hmm, interesting. Fortunately, I have not had laminitis issues with my 25 year old IR pony. And I sure don’t want to. I get a lot of my supplements from Uckele anyhow, so getting educated and knowing this is available is another tool in the toolbox. Always good to be aware & prepared just in case.

[Snowdenfarm]

@lindseyjo11

My horse has slight rib showing, but any weight I put on goes straight to his neck or rump as fat deposits. Frustrating, but the vet told me keeping him thinner was best.

Yes, thinner is better when they are IR. Once they regain insulin sensitivity, they can put a little weight on their ribs without the crest and other weird fat deposits developing. I have nothing against ribs showing. I was trying to find a way to say a healthy weight without having it sound like overweight with IR fat deposits. I forgot to add that her bloodwork is perfect now too. It can happen!

[lindseyjo11]

@Snowdenfarm

Yes, thinner is better when they are IR. Once they regain insulin sensitivity, they can put a little weight on their ribs without the crest and other weird fat deposits developing. I have nothing against ribs showing. I was trying to find a way to say a healthy weight without having it sound like overweight with IR fat deposits. I forgot to add that her bloodwork is perfect now too. It can happen!

Yes, I would definitely rather have him thinner and sound than fat and unable to walk any day! That’s awesome that her blood work came back so good! I’m waiting for the perfect blood work. He was tested end of last year and it was okay. He was also out of work due to EPM, so I’m hoping this year will be a better year for him now that I’ve been working him again.

[walkinthewalk]

@fjordmom

Ditto. I’m interested too.

Quite accidentally, I’ve had my IR horse on citrulline since late spring of 2015 via watermelon AND the rind. The lameness vet suggested feeding it to help him stay cool in our hot/humid months.

I noticed he stopped getting warm hooves when the frost came on in the fall. The only thing different in his diet was the added watermelon, which I feed until it’s no longer available in the store - late November in my area.

I googled watermelon and discovered the rind & the meat are chuck full of L-citrulline which converts to L-Arginine in the body.

Not knowing what this ^^^^ all meant, I did some more googling and discovered credible studies on the benefits of L-citrulline to people with Type II diabetes.

My horse now gets 1000mg of L-Citrulline daily. I may or may not cut him back once I start feeding watermelon again, which I work both horses up to two measuring cups daily. I chop everything and add it to the feed pan.

I say “may or may not” because this horse was diagnosed Cushings last fall. The L-citrulline appears to also be helping his muscle waste. His physique and coat have improved a lot. Both the vet and the farrier commented on how great he looks.

His coat is shedding as normal and is NOT growing back, as one might expect with a Cushings horse. It is tight, and has the high shine it’s always had, where he is shed out.

And his 25 yr old self feels pretty good. He also lives with a fractured sacrum so he has his own ~6 acres. He is very non-aggressive, the other horse bullies him, so they are fence friends instead of pasture buds. Both have free access to the barn with hay, all day. They get stalled at night.

I am convinced there is something to the L-citrulline as a benefit to some metabolic horses - it’s all purely anecdotal, based on my experience, an it probably won’t help every metabolic horse out there.

This also doesn’t mean folks should just jump on the bandwagon and buy up L-citrulline:). Do some research as it applies to humans and make a thoughtful decision based on your horse’s health:)

[carman_liz]

@walkinthewalk

Quite accidentally, I’ve had my IR horse on citrulline since late spring of 2015 via watermelon AND the rind. The lameness vet suggested feeding it to help him stay cool in our hot/humid months.

I noticed he stopped getting warm hooves when the frost came on in the fall. The only thing different in his diet was the added watermelon, which I feed until it’s no longer available in the store - late November in my area.

I googled watermelon and discovered the rind & the meat are chuck full of L-citrulline which converts to L-Arginine in the body.

Not knowing what this ^^^^ all meant, I did some more googling and discovered credible studies on the benefits of L-citrulline to people with Type II diabetes.

My horse now gets 1000mg of L-Citrulline daily. I may or may not cut him back once I start feeding watermelon again, which I work both horses up to two measuring cups daily. I chop everything and add it to the feed pan.

I say “may or may not” because this horse was diagnosed Cushings last fall. The L-citrulline appears to also be helping his muscle waste. His physique and coat have improved a lot. Both the vet and the farrier commented on how great he looks.

His coat is shedding as normal and is NOT growing back, as one might expect with a Cushings horse. It is tight, and has the high shine it’s always had, where he is shed out.

And his 25 yr old self feels pretty good. He also lives with a fractured sacrum so he has his own ~6 acres. He is very non-aggressive, the other horse bullies him, so they are fence friends instead of pasture buds. Both have free access to the barn with hay, all day. They get stalled at night.

I am convinced there is something to the L-citrulline as a benefit to some metabolic horses - it’s all purely anecdotal, based on my experience, an it probably won’t help every metabolic horse out there.

This also doesn’t mean folks should just jump on the bandwagon and buy up L-citrulline:). Do some research as it applies to humans and make a thoughtful decision based on your horse’s health:)

How big is your horse? After reading this I am interested in dosage ideas for my 12h 650lbsish pony!

[walkinthewalk]

15.3H and ~1,125 US pounds.

The 15…3H is accurate as I had to measure him according to instructions from the Univ of MI when he was enrolled in one of their metabolic studies in 2012:)

[fjordmom]

Thank you for that info. I’ll have to do some serious looking into L-citrulline As a human pre-diabetic, I might find it personally helpful as well. My 25 year old is both IR and Cushings too. Came out of the winter looking much rougher than I would have liked in spite of all I did do for him. Didn’t hold his weight well and lost a lot of muscle in a short time.

I made some changes to his management and diet and our pasture is finally starting to come in a little bit. Happily, he is now looking and acting so much better, but additional fine tuning before next winter might not be a bad idea. thanks for offering one more place to possibly tweak things for him.

[JannieC]

I was just trying to copy the link but I can’t seem to be able to do it. But if you Google horses and propionic acid there’s a real good article from 2018 from The Horse which explains why propionic acid is safe for horses when used as a preservative. It mentions that horses actually produce it in their hind gut to a much greater extent than they would ever get in eating hay that is treated. I’ve been buying low carb Orchard Grass treated with propionic acid for the last 10 years. I love it because the hay never has mold. I’ve never heard anything about a glucose spike.

[walkinthewalk]

@JannieC

I was just trying to copy the link but I can’t seem to be able to do it. But if you Google horses and propionic acid there’s a real good article from 2018 from The Horse which explains why propionic acid is safe for horses when used as a preservative. It mentions that horses actually produce it in their hind gut to a much greater extent than they would ever get in eating hay that is treated. I’ve been buying low carb Orchard Grass treated with propionic acid for the last 10 years. I love it because the hay never has mold. I’ve never heard anything about a glucose spike.

IF the horse will eat the hay - my horses won’t:(