Return him to the seller if it is at all possible.
I’m not trying to diss you or your skills but this horse is too much for you.
He scares you.
Invest in some research time and find a stable where you can learn real horsemanship.
This will give you a foundation to build on, so that when the time comes you will be ready to have your own horse.
If you cantbreturn the horse, then please find a trainer and maybe even do training board.
it would be well worth it to get the horse schooled enough so that someone else may be interested down the road.
I also think that you have learned a valuable and expensive lesson: you can’t trust the ones you trust.
Ok I’m going to try to answer everyone’s questions, sorry if I miss one. So he has been off the track for about 4 months. He had a month or two of rest due to an abscess. The old owner only had him for those 4 months. She trained him for 2 months after he recovered from the abscess.
I live in a pretty unique neighborhood in Denver. It looks like typical suburban houses but horses are allowed to be kept. So I have a half acre and 3 horses including moose. He has the choice to be in his stall or out in the paddock. He usually only goes into the stall to eat. I’m feeding him enough hay that he runs out for only a couple hours before I give more hay. I give him a small amount of grain everyday and carrots for a treat.
My other 2 horses have definitely not accepted him yet. I know that this is another thing that has him on edge. They quit nipping at him after the first few days but now he just stays away from them. I do see them eating close together and that’s progress. I do disperse the hay I’m different spots so everyone can have space to eat if they want.
Today when I got home from work it felt super cold to me so I thought to myself “screw it im getting that blanket on him one way or another”. So I went out and put the halter on him which he seemed fine with. When I grabbed the lead rope and walked up he raised his head and looked scared but I just calmly put the lead rope on and lead him to the fence to tie him. I draped the blanket over him and he seemed fine. Then came the part of reaching through his back legs to secure the blanket strap. He did nothing at all and seemed totally calm.
I’m a little confused but happy with the small progress.
And yes I know it was ballsy and foolish to buy a 4 year old OTTB. I’m not exactly a novice because I’ve ridden horses my whole life but I am totally self taught and it all started with being a kid and climbing on my aunts horse everyday who was totally bombproof. I have only owned my own horses (12 year old quarter horses) for a year now. They are definitely not bomb proof but haven’t pulled any crap like this.
I don’t want to just give up and give him back to the lady who sold him to me.
I’ve already looked into trainers around here, there are some good ones for sure. I’ll get professional help but I plan on being a part of the process too. I think if it is behavioral then the problem is just racehorse trainers don’t give a shit if a horse has poor ground manners or pins their ears. He just needs guidance
This horse isn’t even broke to ride let alone started on good manners.
You’ve never had lessons. You’ve only owned horses for a year. You are just way in over your head. Please do not start riding this horse on the trails alone or whatever.
If you are dealing with old reliable horses, you can slide off and on, bomb around, have a horse that is essentially no more than greenbroke its entire life, and ride by the seat if your pants, and survive. Especially if you are a teen.
A 4 year old OTTB 4 months off the track, with 2 months training on him, in a suburban backyard with a backyard self taught ride, no trainer on hand?
You are going to get hurt.
You do realize this horse has been taught one thing, run fast fast fast, and the harder you pull the reibs the faster he runs?
Two months retraining means at the most maybe 20 or 25 rides. Green green green.
You may have the skills to bomb around on a broke horse. Guaranteed you don’t have the skills to safely restart a young OTTB.
Small amount of grain… what grain, and how small an amount?
Also be aware most OTTBs I’ve known do not single tie. Maybe yours does or maybe you got lucky… but please don’t assume anything about what this horse has been trained to do, like single tie, which can end in disaster, and big vet bills or worse.
ETA I would not call this horse ‘aggressive’ necessarily either.
If he cocks a leg or pins his ears because his belly hurts [ulcers] that to me is ‘defensive’ and understandable [not to be confused with acceptable].
I’ve known many horse who were grumpy for various reasons, but not aggressive.
It may be splitting hairs on semantics, but if you present this horse to a trainer as ‘aggressive’ rather than ‘defensive for a reason’ the reaction and approach is, IMO, vastly different.
Okay so… let’s all try to be helpful here The snarky condescending comments are not helpful…
A half acre is not a lot of room for a young OTTB he’s going to need a lot of exercise and much more room to stretch his legs so this could definitely be part of the problem. It does sound as though you are making progress and were able to blanket him so that’s good. Possibly the Nexium is helping. I know within a week of Nexium my boy was back to himself and not attacking his pasture mate any longer.
I’ll ask along with Angela… what is the small amount of grain you’re feeding and how much is this small amount?
Ok first of all I’m not a teenager, I’m 29 years old. Just wanted to clear that up haha. I also said my aunts horses were bombproof that I rode as a kid. My horses that I have owned for a year are NOT bombproof. My gelding Joe used to bolt when I first got him and danced around in circles when people first mounted him. He has stopped all of that. He stops on a dime now riding in nothing more than a hackamore bridle. All it took was making a connection with him and gaining his trust.
Like I said a number of times I do want to get a trainers help but I also want to be a part of it.
The small amount of grain I give him is about 1 1/2 measuring cups a day.
I don’t know how else to word that behavior he is doing other than aggressive. I will be telling a trainer that because I want them to know exactly what they are dealing with and hopefully they have had experience with things like that before.
Yeah the lady who sold him said he was very calm under the saddle and he would be totally perfect for me to do trail riding. He did seem super calm under saddle. Maybe she rated him as a 4 because of his behavior on the ground. I’m pretty sure I have watched every single training video that is on YouTube lol. I plan on starting with the simple things like lunging and getting him used to a western saddle. I will not get on him until a trainer present.
Maybe you all are right and he will eventually have to go to a new home that is better suited. But all the people that are super experienced with young green horses had to start with their very first one at some point.
Have you seen him lunged and/or did you yourself lunge him?
I’m not sure I would even do that without a trainer on hand, myself.
ETA I say that because lunging, especially if you aren’t sure he has ever been trained to or if he’s not in an environment conducive to him being rusty at it [pref a round pen], can be incredibly dangerous to him and you.
If you want to work with Moose, and I totally get that you do, the best thing to do is to have a trainer who will both give him some more training rides, and who will give you riding lessons and groundwork lessons. And you want someone who has experience working with OTTBs who are pretty much straight off the track.
If the person who sold you Moose is willing, she would be the best first option to approach. She knows him, and she’s worked with other OTTBs. She would be ideal, at least in the abstract.
Moose is probably a good soul who just needs more training and consistent handling.
I’ve always heard–and read on COTH–that most OTTBs single tie but don’t cross tie, as generally they’re single tied for grooming/tacking up etc at the track. Don’t know for sure. My OTTB already had the single tie “button” installed when I got her, but then she’s always been a peach to handle on the ground (lucky me).
Also, do many trainers spend much time working on ground manners? Just curious…
It seems to me that this horse is young (3), not long off the track and now in a 3rd home. He has 3 strikes against him as it were. By that I mean he has 3 things, any one of which might cause a horse to regress or be not their best…
This boy has three.
My first move would be to let him have some time… to decompress. To grow. To relax.
Certainly there are some basics you can reinforce, like leading politely… but those may also just have slipped because he’s so recently moved and his tummy is upset and who knows how different what you feed it from what he was fed at the last place, on top of the new herd and the dynamics getting hashed out there, etc.
My last horse was older and had been around the block and was a very good boy… but he really made me realize just how long some of them take to ‘exhale’ and relax and understand that they are ‘home’. It took Melly a long, long time.
And I think labeling them before they’ve had a chance to ‘exhale’ is unfair.
And again if you share where you are [even just the county and state] I imagine there’s a COTH’er who can direct you to the best person to hire to help you guys out.
I think the answer is always ‘It Depends’, hence my warning about assuming anything.
I rode a racing and placing TB out on trail rides with his trainer [my friend] on her 4 year old when I was 16. Cutter was a peach and so well broke.
So yes some trainers do way more than others.
That’s why I think the best approach is to assume the buttons aren’t there until you learn that they are through cautiously and carefully and with professional help when safest [like lunging] determining they are there.
Angela Freda, I totally agree. Best not to assume anything when working with any horse!
As for the trainer question: I was thinking more about trainers of riding horses (not racehorses), specifically if there were many that spent much time on ground manners. It seems like most of them focus on riding performance but not so much on ground manners, but I really don’t know.
What is the brand name of this grain? If it’s sweet feed, feed it to your others until it’s gone and never buy any again
My first OTTB was off the track for 6 weeks when I got him and I had been away from horses for 20 years. The only trainer I had access to at the time knew absolutely ZERO… not just about OTTB’s but come to find out zero in a lot of ways lol! BUT… he was sick and lame, so for the first 9 months we did nothing but get to know each other and I had the right mind set for it. So it can be done, but to do it faster than I did… find a trainer
As many have said, good suggestion to find and work with a trainer.
Perhaps your QHs were not “bombproof” but your OTTB is a recently off the track TB. There are many “well behaved horse” skills that OTTBs never learn because it wasn’t expected of them.
4 months isn’t a huge let down time. Now he has to learn all these new skills and that won’t happen overnight. These skills might even include how to lead or stand politely. Yes, he can learn them, but he just may not know that now and needs to learn.
Sounds like when you interacted with him with confidence, he was better. Every interaction you have with him is training… it’s up to you it is positive or negative training
Defensive is another word to use to describe what he does. Do you see the difference between the two words?
Better yet, describe what he does, when he does it, what you are doing when he does it, etc.
Being more thorough is a far better way to convey to the trainer what the situation is, than trying to sum it all up in one word.
@zipperfoot any horse trainer, which the OP should be seeking rather than a riding instructor, who I would be interested in hiring should work on any training holes the horse has. IMO
Aggressive means he attacks. You can not be in the paddock and take your eyes off him as he will come for you.
When you bring a new horse home you should not put it in with the other horses until it has been separated next to them for a couple of weeks. Before that you might want to separate completely for quarantine reasons.
If you have 3 horses. You should be putting out at least 7 heaps of hay, completely separated.
Oh sure he is quiet and he will be quiet until the hundredths of a second that he is not quiet.
Yes, everybody starts someplace but without supervision by a knowledgeable person, proper equipment and a proper place to work? It’s impossible to learn how to work with young horses let alone teach them to respect and obey direction.
Do you have enough room for a trainer to work with this horse? A round pen? Doubting there’s room on your half acre for an arena, where would you ride?. Might be a problem.
Horse is not aggressive, he just doesn’t know any better and he knows he scares you. That’s definately a problem.
Not sure he was drugged either, under the care of an experienced person in a busy barn, he may have been far more comfortable then in a backyard with a couple of horses. He spent years in the busy track environment on a strict daily schedule several times a day by experienced staff who are used to race fit young horses keen to run. Betting he’s NOT getting anywhere near the exercise he was at the track or in the busy barn, that’s not helping you. But also bet he’s had a blanket on before and you should not be surprised he let you put it on, fact it should be expected.
Might not be the right situation for him only 4 months off the track. Can you board him with a trainer with an arena to work safely in for a couple of months? Safe, distraction free place to teach you and him?
Decades ago, used to freelance teach and train. Stopped taking any Green horses without an enclosed work are big enough to canter around. Didn’t have to be a fancy ring, flat field would do. But had to be fenced (safe fence) to contain misbehavior. Most freelancers also require a safe, suitable sized place to work. Keep that in mind.
Ulcers or not, most horses don’t particularly appreciate a random stranger walking up and scratching them on the belly any more than you or I would. Horses have personal space bubbles just like we do and their belly is part of it. Yes, at some point you will need to access that area to groom, tack up, etc. And he will need to learn to tolerate handling in that area. But I wouldn’t consider a horse aggressive for not enjoying extraneous touch on it’s belly.
No, you can’t trust someone just because they teach kids. I often make the dark joke that I thought most people honest until I started farming. The equine industry is just as bad. Yes, it sounds like the horse was drugged when you tried him. But you also sound like you fall on the more sensitive end of the horse handling scale and are off put by behaviors that many would consider a non-starter. I regularly ride horses that lift up a back foot when they see the girth coming. That doesn’t mean I tolerate kicking, biting, or other full ideations of bad behavior. I don’t. The raised leg tells me that the horse is either sensitive and thin skinned or has been pinched by the girth in the past. In that case I take special care saddling. (I’m the only one who can saddle the Shetland at my kids’ barn without him rearing). Through here’s absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to deal with a lifted foot. But freshly OTTB probably aren’t a good match for you if this is the case.
If nothing else get him to a training barn or even a boarding facility with knowledgeable handlers and other horses around to get him on a routine and teach him how to act. Several years ago, I was given two OTTBs. They didn’t need to be stabled but I did it anyway in the interest of giving them structure and routine and lots of practice interacting with people. The biggest help came from my two draft horse geldings, though. They towered over the TBs like Dwayne Johnson standing next to Dustin Hoffman. They never bullied the TBs and were quite accepting of them so long as they displayed proper horse behavior. Both had the size and strength to enforce the boundaries when the TBs overstepped. One morning I watched the bolder TB attempt to muscle into the Shire’s stall for his feed. The Shire stepped back and pinned him flat against the wall just long enough to make him uncomfortable The TBs had come from a farm where they were only horses and it was obvious they had been uncomfortable fending for themselves as herd leaders. They relished the company of their new, older and wiser herd mates and were willing to play by their rules to win their acceptance.
Don’t let him run out of hay unless you have grazing available. He needs forage in his stomach to keep the stomach acid from splashing up. He likely also needs good groceries to put on weight. I’ve dealt with an OTTB that was practically psychotic because he was hungry. About a week of low-starch, low carb calories and it was like night and day.
There’s no harm no foul in admitting this horse is not a good match. There are any number of nice people in the world but only a few of those are going to click with you as a romantic partner. Horses and riders are pretty much the same, IMO
The snarky condescending comments are not helpful…
