Trainers on the track? No. Civilian trainers? I’d again say no for most. Definitely something you’d need to ask around if you needed ground manners specifically addressed.
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Western trainers tend to spend more time on ground manners then race or other civilian trainers. IME on both sides.
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I appreciate everybody’s advice but I must say I feel a lot more discouraged now. Trying to sell him would be very difficult because I refuse to lie to people about what he does so I would be totally upfront about him. I bought him for $1500 and wouldn’t want to go any lower than that for fear of him ending up at a kill pen.
I definitely have the room to work with him in my opinion. Nobody I’ve seen trains horses on groundwork and basics in a large open field. Plus we are expanding the horse area this summer, not by much but they should have another 1,500 square feet added on.
We always ride our horses on a bike path that runs through the city of Denver. That’s the only place we can get to from our house. There are barking dogs, fast bikes, bridges, and cars everywhere.
That would be the goal for him, is to be able to go on that ride one day with the other horses. So far my other horses have not bonded with him what so ever and moose doesn’t seem to know much about being a herd member. Even the lady I bought him from kept him in a tiny run away from other horses. He has more room with me than he had there believe it or not. I’m not sure if this would work at all or not but I’m hoping once he does establish a bond with my other geldings that they can teach him better manners. Moose doesn’t ever run around or play or anything which surprises me since he is so young. Other young horses I’ve observed are trotting around all day and being very playful. I bet moose never had the chance to just be a horse.
Please don’t make the assumption that Thoroughbreds who have had racing careers have never had the chance to be a horse.
A responsible Thoroughbred breeder has acres of pasture for the mares and foals to eat, play and learn horse behavior until the horse goes into race training; after that many trainers give their horses farm time frequently. They want a happy horse as much as you do.
An experienced horse person familiar with an OTTB is not going to be put off by the behavior you describe.
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The last sentence says it all. From what I have read this is going to be a disaster. I am sorry to say this but the red flags are everywhere. Can you afford to board him at a full service barn with a reputable trainer? That would be ideal.
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I never said you needed an open field to learn basics and ground work. Quite the opposite, you need a safe, fenced are big enough to ride at a canter around. Free lance trainers will need this to work with the horse safely. As does OP.
1500 was pretty high for this one ( way above meat prices) and don’t think it’s a good choice for riding an urban bike trail with many distractions. Don’t see a path to get him trained up to be able to do that in the near future given OPs resources. Sending him out is a good option but it will take time to get him better ground manners, much better broke and desensitised to urban trail riding. It’s not a 30 day quick fix.
Did this seller know you wanted him for that? Will she buy him back? You can buy any number of QH type grade geldings suitable for trail riding tomorrow for that price. Not young or fancy but not 4 months off the race track with non Ammy friendly skill set and manners. What was that seller thinkingifcshe did…that’s on her, not OP.
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I always love the this horse isn’t suitable for me, and I’ve made him less suitable for others, but obvs I want at least my money back.
He is now worth less than what you paid.
Please find a reputable trainer to send him to. Give him to a reputable trainer if they will take him. There are many great trainers who will take a sound three year old ottb.
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Apt words from Denny Emerson today
I have been asked (anonymously) to discuss this scenario-
"Mr Emerson,
What would you do if you took a horse that you felt had good potential to a new trainer, and the trainer recommends that you sell the horse because she does not feel that you and the horse are a good match?" She feels that the horse lacks the ability to do well in the direction I wish to go in my riding.
Thank you for any advice."
I do think these situations are common, and that there is no one size fits all answer.
If the new trainer is a been there, done that trainer with years of experience, and you sought her out because of her depth of knowledge, but now you don’t like what she says, you can either find another trainer, or see if she will be willing to work with you with your horse.
Or you might decide that her advice is probably good advice, and do what she suggests.
I have heard stories of riders who reluctantly took the advice, and sold the horse, only to see the new owner have great success. I have heard stories of riders who ignored the advice, kept the horse, and later had great success. I have heard stories of riders who took the advice, sold the horse, and were happy and successful with its replacement. I have heard stories of riders who ignored the advice, kept the horse, and had disappointment and failure. I heard a story of one young woman who ignored the advice, kept the horse, and was killed when the horse reared over backwards on her.
So I guess the answer is whether or not you feel that your new trainer knows what she is talking about, and has your best interests at heart. Others may have further insights?
You know… I believe OP said she was going to work with a trainer. Comments like ^^^ are not helpful.
You rub on the horse, the horse does not get allowed to rub on you. You instantly trained him that you are nothing but a scratching post, not someone who can lead him to safety. Then you moved on to becoming an irritating fly to nip at. Please try to return him, or get him in a program with a pro, the sooner the better.
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Ok I’m not trying to sound rude but I really think a lot of people come on here just to be know it alls and make other people feel like idiots.
I HIGHLY doubt that by petting him a couple times and he pinned his ears and raised his leg that I have now taught this horse a terrible behavior and I am an annoying fly to him. Also, everyone is so quick to say what I did wrong which is ok, but I haven’t seen one comment where anyone suggests what I should have done in those circumstances. I would LOVE to hear what I should have done when I went to scratch him and he pinned his ears and raised his leg to kick.
On a different note, this morning he walked right up to me and I scratched him all over his neck and he loved it. When I walked away he followed me. I also noticed when I came out this morning that the 3 horses were all standing close together which hasn’t happened at all. So I think my other horses are accepting him.
You really are not set up for this horse. He is young, he’s exuberant, and he has been trained to do exactly one thing, and that’s run. You have him crammed into a tiny paddock with three other horses (you said 1/2 acre, yes?). He has no room to stretch, run, be a horse. He can’t do it. He is stressed and he is telling you that in the only way he has. He needs room. He needs down time. He also needs a confident person with a firm hand to let him know his behavior isn’t always appropriate. Can you provide any of that? When he is put under saddle, he needs a confined, safe, fenced area in which to work. Do you have that?
Most people who start young horses started their ‘first one’ under the supervision of someone who knew what they were doing. I didn’t take on my first OTTB until I had YEARS of experience with starting green horses, years of lessons, of riding my own horses and working with others. I still remember everyone giving me the same advice: he won’t grow a brain until he’s at least 7 or 8. He needs time to decompress from the track and figure out how to be a horse again. Remember when you ride him to stay out of his mouth - leg and seat aids only until he learns that you putting any pressure on the bit isn’t an invitation to run. Even then, with all my experience, I never sat on him until my instructor was there. We took it slow, we made sure he always knew what was expected of him. We never left him with room to doubt what we wanted, and we were always one step ahead of him. That’s where the experience comes into play. Do you have an independent seat? Can you not snatch at the reins if he bolts?
I think the woman who sold him to you lied to you. And I think you should return him to her. You need riding lessons and experience before starting your own youngster, especially this one. You don’t sound like you have the confidence to be the leader he needs right now. Sorry to sound harsh, but that’s the reality of the situation.
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OP
What you are attempting to do isn’t impossible.
Just difficult and risky.
If the seller won’t take the horse back, you have some options.
You can keep on as you are and hope for the best. I wouldn’t recommend it.
You can do some research and see if you can find a trainer that restarts OTTB s.
Will it be cheap? No, but you get what you pay for.
You can look around and find a western trainer who starts young horses.
if you are looking for a trail horse this might be the way to go.
I find western trainers are much more into ground manners than English Disciplines.
Again you are going to have to pay for this.
Find a trainer who will teach you along with your horse.
While you are doing your research, also consider that this horse might not have the temperament that you are looking for.
He may become more manageable: he may never be the pocket pony you want.
please don’t disregard the good advice you’ve gotten from the other posters.
I will say I admire your courage.
and I get why you don’t want to give up.
Retraining a young OTTB is not for the faint of heart. But please remember that is isn’t something that is DYI.
Ultimately, it is your decision to make.
Good luck.
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Because it depends, it’s complicated, and it really requires timing that can’t be conveyed in writing.
That’s why reading books about how to train horses or ride are fine, but no replacement for experience.
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In case this in reply to my post, I wrote that you can rub (pet) on the horse, but that allowing a horse to rub on you means there is no spacial barrier. We are not talking about Grandma’s horse here. Plan to get walked on. You seem to lack the knowledge to direct his behavior before he pins his ears, which is a warning that you are pissing him off. Since you are ignoring his gentle efforts at warning you with pinned ears, he is escalating to a threatening kick. Eventually you will be kicked and he may even turn into a shadow-kicker, pinned ears optional. IMHO & YMMV.
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I guess it must be regional because I’ve never gotten an OTTB that didn’t single tie. And when I’ve done listings I can’t count the number of times I’ve “interviewed” for the listings while the horse was chilling single-tied in the stall.
OP, I’ve typed out a reply unique to your situation on COTH at least a dozen times. If you do a search, you will find hundreds of threads started by very similar people, in very similar situations. If you have some time, pull up a chair, some hot chocolate or your preferred libation of choice, a comfy cat on your lap, and do some reading – because there is a lot on COTH to learn.
OTTBs are a completely different skill-set than just about every other horse training skill-set, because you are dealing with YOUNG on top of UNTRAINING. Young horses in of themselves are a skill-set that is challenging to acquire, and the only way to do so is through experience – untraining, or unlearning the behaviors installed into OTTBs, is also something that is best done through the guided hands of someone who has walked this road with OTTBs many times. There is so much to learn about retraining them. I am still learning from retraining them, and I have had OTTBs from the track for 20 years. That is hardly a life-time, and there is so much each new project teaches me.
It is very easy to get defensive when you feel your skills are being called into question. Rest assured, on COTH at least, the people here have yours (and Moose’s) best interests in mind, and are not doing so to be cruel or unkind, but to help you see that at present, you may lack the tools necessary to be successful with this horse.
And that is okay. We are all learning, all the time.
I have been on this forum for ten years. I’ve learned a lot – especially from several of the users replying to you on this thread, who I have come to recognize as paragons of horsecare. You will do yourself (and Moose) a huge service to listen to everything that they have given you - including finding a real trainer, and never stop closing your mind to new advice, new techniques, and new ways to handle what is a new-to-you situation.
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when that happened I literally just walked up to him and reached my arm out to touch him. I think that’s usually the first encounter most people have with their new horse is walking up and touching them. I’ve only had him about 2 1/2 weeks so there hasn’t been much time to start working miracles. I didn’t allow him to keep rubbing his head on me because it kind of hurt so I pushed his head away. This morning too, he started following me but was walking way to close to I just held my arm out and kept him at a distance. Do you think that is the right thing to do?
Like I said I do appreciate constructive criticism but I really don’t think I’m so hopeless that I will be surely killed if I pet him the wrong way
First, that’s not how I approach a new horse. I give them my fist to sniff, and I watch their faces. I only pat a horse that gives me an invitation to touch them.
OP you have a couple of options.
A 4 year old OTTB with two months retraining under saddle is just a very bad match for your intended job of wandering down the public bike path with your older horses.
He is a good match for someone wanting to jump or do cross country eventing, for whom speed, athleticism, and reactivity are advantages not disadvantages.
After hearing more about your situation, my advice is to call up the local cross country eventing trainers and find someone willing to take him on as a project. You might get $1000 or you might give him away.
No need to go into chapter and verse on your specific fails with ground skills.
Say: I bought a young OTTB with two months under saddle. I didn’t realize what I was getting into. I don’t have a riding arena or turnout, and I now understand I am not going to be able to just ride down the bike path with him. He’s a nice boy but I don’t have the skills or cash or even the facility to put into training him. I paid $1500 for him from (name Stables in other state) and he went OK for me on the trial ride. I’d like to get some of that money back but more importantly find him a good home with people that know OTTB s.
Don’t go on about him being dangerous on the ground. The trainer can evaluate that themselves. There is a good chance he won’t be dangerous with them.
Your other options:
Put him on pasture on a ranch for a full year, and then put him into professional training.
Or put him into professional training now.
But honestly if you want another nice broke bike trail horse, get one. Why spend all this time and money schooling a horse whose major talent is to run fast fast fast, to be a low key walk trot trail horse?
I would suggest rehoming him sooner rather than later. At the moment he is still raw material OTTB. He hasn’t had a chance to hurt himself or you or learn to buck or rear under saddle. Trainers that like OTTB generally prefer them straight off the track, not after a couple years being mishandled by nervous riders and with bad habits.
This is not a meat truck horse and he will do just fine in a competent eventing home. Or you could sell him to the Chuck wagon racers.
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People rarely get killed by horses.
Instead, they get seriously injured, and that impacts their livelihood - their ability to hold down a job, or take care of their horses and themselves.
Something to think about - it’s a lot easier to take care of your horses at home when you have two functioning legs, vs being in a wheelchair because you were kicked, or fell off the horse and got seriously injured.
I am dealing with a knee injury unrelated to horses (ice hockey) and let me tell you it is no picnic working in the snow. I’m really lucky right now my horse is kept at the family farm.
And like with horses those injuries like as not follow us around our entire lives, too – even when they heal there is structural weakness, or secondary compensational injuries.
So it may sound all doom and hyperbole, but kicking out is a very serious problem and you can get seriously hurt. I am still dealing with residual pain from being double-barrel kicked in the pelvis over six years ago by a horse that I knew would eventually hurt me. I quit that job that week, because my life was not worth dealing with a boarder’s actually aggressive horse. It was very sad but I have zero regrets, except, perhaps, not suggesting to the BO that the horse be put in an Alpo can for being so dangerous - he also hurt three other workers, in similar ways.
It’s just not worth it to be hurt over a horse. A few lessons with a trainer experienced with OTTBs in handling would do you much more good than harm - and hopefully, would shed some insight on why the horse is being so reactive, and help you develop sharper eyes to these “cues” that help trainers prevent blow-ups or accidents.
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About being hurt.
Last winter I was housebound in a soft cast for 6 weeks after a horse spooked going through a gate and stepped on the top of my foot. OK. I had two horses in hand, and they both bolted and barreled through the gate and knocked me over.
I was out of the saddle three months and put my horse in full training board.
I was so lucky I had good medical benefits at work.
I was lucky I didn’t need surgery.
It was a very small injury in the entire scheme of things, but it completely disrupted my life for several months and if I didn’t have a good union job, could have really messed me up financially.
Those injuries, stepped on, knocked over, bucked off: rarely fatal, but usually have substantial recovery time and also destroy your overall fitness and confidence.
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