OTTB acting aggressive

[Edre]

There is a lot of subtext that I am getting from your posts, OP. I agree with Scribbler’s post above on how to find him a suitable home, for the record. That is a fantastic post loaded with excellent advice.

It IS possible to problem solve for this horse’s situation. But the solutions that I suspect will keep coming up are not going to be good fits for your current situation. No horse has the same set of needs. This is why certain horses thrive in situations that others do so poorly in. One of the hardest things we can do as horse people is to look, without ego or excuse, at what EXACTLY the needs are of the horse we are dealing with IN THIS MOMENT. “Well if we make it past this we would be ok” isn’t looking at the horse’s needs in this current moment.

To me, this sounds like a horse that would flourish with certain opportunities. Unfortunately as you are finding out, your current situation doesn’t allow for many of those opportunities. It’s the timeless “square peg/round hole” conflict.

Additionally: no, that is not how I approach new horses. It comes across very “strongly” (I have an averse reaction to passing acquaintences coming in strongly for a full body hug. Going in reaching out for a horse who is mostly unfamiliar with a person is much the same).

[findeight]

Think one thing that’s unique about COTH is most of us aren’t being holier then thou, on the contrary, we made the SAME MISTAKES. We got run off with, bucked off, spun off, reared off, scraped against the fence, carried into sides of building plus being bitten, kicked, run over, drug around and knocked over on the ground.and we got hurt.

We aren’t looking down at you, we are actually commiserating and trying to protect you and provide options for the horse.

What you should do is find a trainer who can help both of you however not having an enclosed place to ride around in to learn is a problem, you or even the trainer can’t teach what he needs to learn on a busy mixed use city trail.

BTDT, bought unsuitable young greenie for a first owned horse and kept in backyard with no ring or place to work Did get him going but about 30 days in some dogs spooked him and sent him flying and me to tne ER. After the cast came off, I traded him to a local trainer who had a 10 year old mare he had no use for. Win win, trainer made money selling the gelding after a few months and I trail rode and showed that mare for several years. Then sold her to a kid that was scared to death of her unsuitable horse.

See about trading your horse in for one that will work with your needs and horse keeping situation ( no ring and busy trail) while allowing him a chance at the work he needs.

[Urbanhorsegirl]

I do appreciate every bodies advice very much. I don’t want to make any quick decisions that I might regret. So I think what I will do is keep him for now and let him get completely used to his new home and new herd mates. Also continue giving him nexium. When spring rolls around in a couple months I will start seriously looking for a trainer. I’m the meantime I will work on small things with him like personal space and being tied.
Thanks again for the advice and hopefully in a couple months I’ll have some good news to report

[Scribbler]

I too am speaking from experience and observation.

l’m at a mixed use recreational barn. We are near a lower end racetrack. We actually have 2 stalls occupied by track trainers who rotate their sales, retired, and injured horses through.

My coach also buys and restarts young OTTB but gives them several years on pasture to grow up and chill out

I’ve also watched a number of juniors and ammies struggle with OTTB.

And I’ve ridden older well broke OTTB in lessons.

I loved riding them. I felt like I was driving a sports car. The temptation to get a horse of that quality free or very cheap off the track is huge. You can get a very good quality OTTB for almost nothing, where the equivalent WB who might be half TB anyhow is going to be $20,000 unbroke.

And I decided not to. Decided I didn’t want to deal with the speed and reactivity. Just would not be safe for me. I help my coach on the ground with her OTTB projects, and I stay clear of the bronc fest when the track trainer rides her sales horses in the indoor arena :).

They are just really different from other horses. I mean obviously there is a range of personality, but they skew hot, fast, reactive, compared to stock horses, WB, ponies, basically anything else (Arabs are a separate animal altogether).

Honestly my coach is the only person I have watched really make OTTB into saddle horses without extensive bolt and bronc. The track trainer rides it out OK but doesn’t have the schooling skills to make much difference. The juniors and ammies have a very long road ahead of them and several gave up and rehomed their OTTB.

[Scribbler]

@Urbanhorsegirl

I do appreciate every bodies advice very much. I don’t want to make any quick decisions that I might regret. So I think what I will do is keep him for now and let him get completely used to his new home and new herd mates. Also continue giving him nexium. When spring rolls around in a couple months I will start seriously looking for a trainer. I’m the meantime I will work on small things with him like personal space and being tied.
Thanks again for the advice and hopefully in a couple months I’ll have some good news to report

IME a hot horse cooped up where he can’t run gets jumpier and jumpier with time.

[Angela_Freda]

There’s no ring, not even a round pen? Where were you going to lunge him? I need to go back and read again, I think I missed a few posts…

[Urbanhorsegirl]

The area where the horses are kept is a closed in paddock. I also have a lunge line. There is also enough space for the horses to run around, they just never do really

[Scribbler]

@Urbanhorsegirl

The area where the horses are kept is a closed in paddock. I also have a lunge line. There is also enough space for the horses to run around, they just never do really

If they don’t run around, they still build up energy.

[good_booie]

There were many unanswered questioned asked of the OP. I “think” there is no ring or roundpen and just a half acre for 3 horses which may or may not include a home. I watched his sales video and he seems like a good citizen. I sure hope he lands softly.

[Scribbler]

@good booie

There were many unanswered questioned asked of the OP. I “think” there is no ring or roundpen and just a half acre for 3 horses which may or may not include a home. I watched his sales video and he seems like a good citizen. I sure hope he lands softly.

If the space is too small for the horses to feel comfortable running, then they won’t. But beware the reaction when they get outside into the wild wide open!

[Wanderosa]

@beowulf

I guess it must be regional because I’ve never gotten an OTTB that didn’t single tie. And when I’ve done listings I can’t count the number of times I’ve “interviewed” for the listings while the horse was chilling single-tied in the stall.

OP, I’ve typed out a reply unique to your situation on COTH at least a dozen times. If you do a search, you will find hundreds of threads started by very similar people, in very similar situations. If you have some time, pull up a chair, some hot chocolate or your preferred libation of choice, a comfy cat on your lap, and do some reading – because there is a lot on COTH to learn.

OTTBs are a completely different skill-set than just about every other horse training skill-set, because you are dealing with YOUNG on top of UNTRAINING. Young horses in of themselves are a skill-set that is challenging to acquire, and the only way to do so is through experience – untraining, or unlearning the behaviors installed into OTTBs, is also something that is best done through the guided hands of someone who has walked this road with OTTBs many times. There is so much to learn about retraining them. I am still learning from retraining them, and I have had OTTBs from the track for 20 years. That is hardly a life-time, and there is so much each new project teaches me.

It is very easy to get defensive when you feel your skills are being called into question. Rest assured, on COTH at least, the people here have yours (and Moose’s) best interests in mind, and are not doing so to be cruel or unkind, but to help you see that at present, you may lack the tools necessary to be successful with this horse.

And that is okay. We are all learning, all the time.

I have been on this forum for ten years. I’ve learned a lot – especially from several of the users replying to you on this thread, who I have come to recognize as paragons of horsecare. You will do yourself (and Moose) a huge service to listen to everything that they have given you - including finding a real trainer, and never stop closing your mind to new advice, new techniques, and new ways to handle what is a new-to-you situation.

D

i’ve had the same experience with OTTB only knowing how to single tie. Same with my big draft boys.

OP - Beowulf speaks the truth. Lots to learn here on COTH. Maybe the best thing to do if you want to stick with this horse:

1. Find someone who works with OTTB a lot &,go observe. You’ll probably feel a lot better seeing how other freshly off the track horses act. See if you can handle some with that person there for moral support.

2. rejoice in the fact that most OTTB do have an advantage over civilian horses. They’ve seen everything on the track. Zombie clowns juggling chainsaws while trotting laps in a pony cart? No biggie! The 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse rolled up in a cloud of sulphur inquiring about field board? What-eavh. Not gonna spook an OTTB.

[Urbanhorsegirl]

Sorry I tried to answer everyone’s questions but there were a lot so I forgot to answer some. I do indeed have a nice space to work with him because it’s closed in and secure. I know there is enough room for the horses to run because I ride them in the space all the time and canter with no problem.
I had today off of work so I spent a lot of time out with the horses and I swear he is acting really different today for the better. And today is the first day that my other geldings seem to be accepting him somewhat. I have stood next to him and petted him several times and he just continues eating. Instead of dispersing the hay all over the paddock this time I just put it all in one big pile and they are all standing together with no issues. Now it’s making me think he was just so scared and stressed from my other geldings nipping him and kicking at him that he probably just didn’t want anyone including me touching him. Now that he is becoming a part of the herd he seems way more chill. Hopefully things continue this way! I’ve also been reading all day about OTTBs and he has some things going for him that others don’t such as he doesn’t seem very spooky at all. Also I can throw a lead rope over him anywhere and he doesn’t flinch. He also acknowledges me whenever I’m around, he seems very interested in what I’m doing at all times. That could just be because I’m the one who brings the food, but I appreciate a horse that pays attention to me rather than ignore

[Wanderosa]

@Scribbler

I too am speaking from experience and observation.

l’m at a mixed use recreational barn. We are near a lower end racetrack. We actually have 2 stalls occupied by track trainers who rotate their sales, retired, and injured horses through.

My coach also buys and restarts young OTTB but gives them several years on pasture to grow up and chill out

I’ve also watched a number of juniors and ammies struggle with OTTB.

And I’ve ridden older well broke OTTB in lessons.

I loved riding them. I felt like I was driving a sports car. The temptation to get a horse of that quality free or very cheap off the track is huge. You can get a very good quality OTTB for almost nothing, where the equivalent WB who might be half TB anyhow is going to be $20,000 unbroke.

And I decided not to. Decided I didn’t want to deal with the speed and reactivity. Just would not be safe for me. I help my coach on the ground with her OTTB projects, and I stay clear of the bronc fest when the track trainer rides her sales horses in the indoor arena :).

They are just really different from other horses. I mean obviously there is a range of personality, but they skew hot, fast, reactive, compared to stock horses, WB, ponies, basically anything else (Arabs are a separate animal altogether).

Honestly my coach is the only person I have watched really make OTTB into saddle horses without extensive bolt and bronc. The track trainer rides it out OK but doesn’t have the schooling skills to make much difference. The juniors and ammies have a very long road ahead of them and several gave up and rehomed their OTTB.

This made me think of another thing to mention for the OP: I’m in Northern Virginia hunt/race country. OTTB are a dime a dozen. My daughter’s trainer is from a racing family and is extraordinarily successful retraining them because she has the jockey background as well as the hunter jumper chops. Something major I’ve noticed that I’m unsure differs around the country. The predominate style here is to teach them to run long and low, leaning into the bit. Pulling back is essentially stepping on the gas pedal. (When I watch the jockeys taking timber racing prospects out with the hunt I never see them pull back. I honest to God think that they must bump them into the backs of their trainer’s horses until they fine tune the brakes from the leg and seat aids.) The people that are most successful with them, eventers and serious field hunters, are generally extremely strong riders that are skilled at using pressure and release to redirect the raw speed into power.

If I were to pick one up for myself I’d lean towards the ones that are coming off the track a little older having raced longer. They’re more settled. Less apt to be blindly reactive and more just big goofball. And they have to be intelligent to race well. So I know there’s a good mind in there to develop.

I see that you’re leaning towards keeping the horse for the next few months. One thing I’d suggest is to observe how your older horses interact with him. You saw how they nipped and ran him when he first arrived. And now they’re starting to let him into the herd so long as he plays by the rules. You can incorporate that dynamic into your groundwork. One of the things I found fascinating watching the two I had at home interact with the big drafts was how relieved they were that there was someone else in charge now. They were like 14 year old humans who thought it was awesome to be home alone until the washing machine backed up and flooded the basement. When one of the TB overstepped the boundaries of acceptable horse behavior the older ones’ response was swift and matter of fact. The offending youngster went “whoops, my bad!” Then everyone returned to eating and the incident was apparently put out of mind. Horses don’t get emotional with each other like humans do.

[Urbanhorsegirl]

@Wanderosa

This made me think of another thing to mention for the OP: I’m in Northern Virginia hunt/race country. OTTB are a dime a dozen. My daughter’s trainer is from a racing family and is extraordinarily successful retraining them because she has the jockey background as well as the hunter jumper chops. Something major I’ve noticed that I’m unsure differs around the country. The predominate style here is to teach them to run long and low, leaning into the bit. Pulling back is essentially stepping on the gas pedal. (When I watch the jockeys taking timber racing prospects out with the hunt I never see them pull back. I honest to God think that they must bump them into the backs of their trainer’s horses until they fine tune the brakes from the leg and seat aids.) The people that are most successful with them, eventers and serious field hunters, are generally extremely strong riders that are skilled at using pressure and release to redirect the raw speed into power.

If I were to pick one up for myself I’d lean towards the ones that are coming off the track a little older having raced longer. They’re more settled. Less apt to be blindly reactive and more just big goofball. And they have to be intelligent to race well. So I know there’s a good mind in there to develop.

I see that you’re leaning towards keeping the horse for the next few months. One thing I’d suggest is to observe how your older horses interact with him. You saw how they nipped and ran him when he first arrived. And now they’re starting to let him into the herd so long as he plays by the rules. You can incorporate that dynamic into your groundwork. One of the things I found fascinating watching the two I had at home interact with the big drafts was how relieved they were that there was someone else in charge now. They were like 14 year old humans who thought it was awesome to be home alone until the washing machine backed up and flooded the basement. When one of the TB overstepped the boundaries of acceptable horse behavior the older ones’ response was swift and matter of fact. The offending youngster went “whoops, my bad!” Then everyone returned to eating and the incident was apparently put out of mind. Horses don’t get emotional with each other like humans do.

Yes I just watched a training video today that was explaining how race horses are trained to go faster when the jockey pulls back on the bit. I don’t understand what the point of that is

[Urbanhorsegirl]

@Wanderosa For some reason it chopped off the last part of my post but that’s awesome that your draft horses helped teach the young guys some manners. I definitely think having an older experienced horse around to help set an example is the best thing ever. I know my QHs are going to help Moose learn new things. I don’t care if this sounds corny either but I know they love and respect me and I think Moose is starting to catch on to that.
I hope all goes well and I continue to make progress