I don’t know of any IHSA/IDA/IEA program that doesn’t try a horse before they agree to take them on. If I had to guess, I’d say the behavior likely started while at the college program. A different rider every day, especially when most use their own saddles that aren’t fitted to him, could cause back pain significant enough to trigger the behavior you describe. Could be muscle soreness, or a pre-existing condition like KS that was triggered by something that happened in the IHSA program. I would be looking very closely at his back.
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He has appointment with our local OTTB trainer (she has a lot of experience)
I have no doubt this is learned from the school, hence the frustration about them not giving info. We won’t take him back, he was miserable there. As far as we can tell he never was used in an IHSA show. He was being trained for hunt seat and over fences. Just playing with ground poles, they made him a fence charger.
We have geared everything back to slow and quiet. And no we won’t hook him to a cart until we know this issue is conquered, he has never offered this behaviour while being ground driven, but has always been a gentleman on the ground.
And yes, he had lots of pain in his neck, back and hips. He has not indicated any since his last chiro ( fun fact, once adjusted he stopped being a puller too) but has a vet appointment for tomorrow for another go over and teeth check. I really feel this horse has tons of potential and is worth taking the time with. He’s 10 this year so still young.
A side happy note. The QH scored a 71.67 on at his second ever western dressage show 
another one we’re taking it slow with, still just doing W/T classes.
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Yay a happy update. Don’t forget to update with what the trainer says please.
I think that’s great that you are taking him to a trainer with OTTB experience.
There are a couple different ways you could interpret the school’s lack of communication. Yes, it is possible they don’t want to admit their poor training techniques. But, it’s also possible they don’t want to admit that they sold a horse to a student that had known training issues plus a dangerous quirk. It’s also possible that they legitimately don’t understand what went wrong and were happier to rehome the horse than to try to figure it out.
If the behavior issue is due to poor training, it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to figure it out. Excessive halting and backing +/- the use of a harsh bit is how you create this behavior. I doubt that they “taught” the horse to charge poles–many OTTBs are naturally quite forward and can develop issues such as rushing or anticipation easily, and halting and backing is a technique some people do use or potentially overuse to try to remedy this problem. If this horse’s problems are indeed the result of poor training, what do the other horses in the program look like? If you see a bunch of other horses with similar issues, then I think that makes it more likely to be rooted in a training issue.
I commend your attitude towards this difficult horse–I get the impression you and your daughter value the process as much as the results. Training is indeed a labor of love. I think that your daughter will learn from this process, and by involving a trainer you are responsibly keeping your daughter safe. No matter what happens, your daughter will learn a lot.
It is a good thing to believe in your horse. But, OTOH, I would recommend that you set a ceiling as to how much $$ and time you are willing to invest. How much is up to you, but I would keep a tally of your time and expenses, and keep in mind what a nice horse without issues costs. My concern is that a horse that is 10, has been in work most of it’s life, but still can’t be ridden in a normal manner, w/t/c, jump a few small jumps, etc… well, let’s just say that I don’t have confidence that the horse is going to turn out to be a great riding horse. As I said before, hopefully I’m completely wrong about that. But for reference, many horses are well ahead of this one in terms of training and reliability after just a few months under saddle.
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He is no longer backing. Training had been slowed due to moving and weather. Still combating ulcers ( current supplement doesn’t seem to be enough, reviewing new ones, but now getting happy relaxed rides in. All bareback at this point as no saddle is fitting him properly. Daughter is working with saddler to find the right fit for them.
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Thanks for the update! If you haven’t tried it already, ask your vet about Relyne GI for the ulcers. It’s a gel you squirt into their feed 2x a day for 30 days. It only costs $198. Has cleared up some ulcers in horses who hadn’t even gotten relief from a round of Gastroguard. Good luck and glad you guys are working to get to the bottom of this.
Interesting update. Had a young lady over that actually rode him at the school. She didn’t even recognize him. She was stunned, he’s fat, glossy, happy and affectionate, none of which he was during his time at the school. She was really blown away by the fact he’s no longer head shy. (That went away in 1 day) And even she agreed he has gained bone density on our feeding program. Made us feel good.
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this is a problem that you would be best helped with by a trainer–the trainer can see the horse and assess the reason for the behavior and work out a plan to fix it. This would be the safest, best approach to take.
How did you access bone density?
Glad it sounds like he is making progress. Hope you are getting help with the behavior issues.
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We just measured his cannons for density nothing truely “official”
My daughter had a great ride on him today. All this time we didn’t realize we didn’t try my personal saddle on him. It’s a tad big so she padded accordingly so hopefully it will still fit him as he builds muscle. He got a bit strong at the canter but I believe he was happy to be ridden and not in mud, being in a flat arena with good footing he really was attentive and playful. No negative behaviours, even working with a horse his very much dislikes. We limited his time under saddle so he didn’t get sore and were super pleased with his attitude today.
He is also ready to be hitched to a cart. I am going to try to pick up an inexpensive sulky since both of our carts are in the shop. He drug a tire around without any issues and kinda looked at us like “really”
I am looking forward to progressing with him. We know it’s still a long road, we still have to untrain many things he was taught incorrectly but looking forward to the future.
Sounds promising. My guess is back pain plus ulcers plus a mixture of riders with different education of their hands plus too much halting and backing as corrections got him to where he was. Continue with the saddle search and the good work. Also check out the Horse Care forum’s thread on using Nexium for ulcers.
OP " But he has a phase, where everything is run run run, and when told no then he stops and refuses to go forward. He pays no attention to where he backs up to and has been close to injury due to this. Tried working on the lunge last time to no avail. My daughter gives him a completely loose rein when this happens and accepts he may bolt forward for a while but he doesn’t. I had her dismount and then he worked on the lunge like nothing happened, I had her get back on as strickly a passenger, she did not touch his sides or the reins and again worked fine. This also happened the first time we took him trail riding, he started down a hill fine and she tried to balance him and he started the hop up and run backwards thing, "
It sounds as though your daughter’s skills are not up to his level of understanding. You need an educated rider to slowly re-start him. Her usual “fall back” habits only confuse him further, so he short circuits.
I am not “putting down” your daughter’s abilities but there are few collegiate level riders that are as educated as those who have spent long hour days coping with greenish horses.
Had a bout of rainrot so haven’t been riding him. He is a very sensitive horse and a has a very low pain tolerance. He is on a smartpak for ulcers.
He is now pulling a sulky and when my husband finishes repainting the Surrey he will be ready for it. Does not mind driving at all. We were given an unraced TB (4 yr old) filly this winter and they have become buddies so we are considering team driving them (only ground driven her so far). We are working with a driving trainer to help furthur all our educations.
We have also moved and now have the horses on the property with us and I think that is helping a bunch
I had an OTTB that I restarted for a rescue. He also could hit reverse wicked fast on the trail. It was frightening because he paid no attention to where he was going.
What worked for him was to pony him for awhile off of a steady Eddy trail horse. Trails were completely new to him and I think it was a fear response. He’d been on the track a long time and so he found ponying to be very reassuring. He settled down once he felt more comfortable.
