If you were horse shopping, would you be more inclined to consider an unraced TB vs. an OTTB?
Would you consider paying more for an unraced TB than an OTTB?
I would certainly be more inclined to consider an unbroke TB than one who had been at the track. However “unraced” often doesn’t mean the horse wasn’t still broken out as a yearling and in race training for however long, just that it never made it to a race.
For the sake of discussion - assume horse was bred for sport, and never had any race training whatsoever.
It depends what the sportbred horse has done. One of the things I love about OTTBs is that (the good ones) already know all about bathing, trailering, getting tacked up, farriers, vets, etc. They are often completing desensitized to things like trucks and tractors and dogs, etc. I also like the fact that if they held up to a moderate amount of racing and are sound with good x-rays, it bodes well for their ability to hold up in work versus an untested horse.
Sometimes purpose bred horses haven’t been off the farm and need more time and work before they are ready to go (obviously this doesn’t have to be true).
This is a “generally speaking” or “all other things being equal” kind of scenario - I’m basically just trying to figure out if the market is better for unraced/sportbred TBs than OTTBs.
There is not specific horse in mind (well…not entirely true 
but the horse in question has led me to want to know more about this market.
I would expect to pay more for a sport-bred tb, especially if the breeding program has a history of success. A breeder could not stay in business if they were getting OTTB prices for their horses. But I agree with Scubed, I like the fact that OTTBs have lots of experience in a hectic environment.
I’d prefer one that has been at the track and raced. The horse been handled by dozens of experienced hands for at the very least months, more often years. It’s undoubtedly been ridden through some scary stuff. He/she has been around crowds, equipment, gates, bright colors, etc and had to learn to deal with it. Heck, most show horses would wig out if they saw the walk from the barns to the training track that the racehorses are ridden over every day.
If a horse makes it to a race, he has to be somewhat sensible in some way. There are so many that can’t handle it mentally, and generally you don’t want someone else’s problem (I’m not discounting some exceptions to the rule). If the horse didn’t race but what bred for and intended to, there is probably a reason. You’ll still have to do your research and evaluate the animal in front of you, but you already know that.
Good luck!
Tip: Track vets are your friends. They usually know who has one that is ready to retire and they can indicate suitability. The vets know what trainers are good to do business with.
I’ve had both and I prefer those who have raced for various reasons especially when doing resales. Resales are about turning a profit and the horses who have raced generally have seen quite a bit and they know how to go forward. They tend to have been well handled and if you know where to shop to find those who have been well started then you are ahead of the game.
I don’t find the market really supports a higher price just because a horse is a thoroughbred who is sport bred or hasn’t raced. I sometimes think that when a horse hasn’t raced (but was bred to race) there is often a reason (not always but sometimes).
If the horse is bred to be a sporthorse (not a rejected racehorse) than yes I would expect to pay more. I would expect in that case that one or both parents were pretty successful as sporthorses. I have had several unraced TBs who have been rejects, and they’ve all turned out to be nice horses, although laid back and slow enough it was probably good they didn’t make it to the track-- but I got them as very green projects and they went for OTTB prices (or free.)
[QUOTE=epowers;7588552]
I would certainly be more inclined to consider an unbroke TB than one who had been at the track. However “unraced” often doesn’t mean the horse wasn’t still broken out as a yearling and in race training for however long, just that it never made it to a race.[/QUOTE]
And that always makes me wonder why!!! Race training can be just as hard on young joints and soft tissue as actual racing.
Having sold a nice colt, I was looking for another project and at TBs in particular since they can be picked up fairly reasonably. It came down to four horses: a lightly raced mare; a moderately raced and successful gelding; a 6 year who had raced 41 times but not won much; and an unraced, never track trained 5 year old mare. All had good pedigrees for sport and all had good clean legs. I wound up purchasing the unraced, non-race trained mare in part because I did like the fact she didn’t have any race track wear and tear but also because she is going under saddle, has been shown and started over fences. She was a little bit more expensive than the lightly raced mare but less expensive than both geldings, but all were under $5k.
If the sportbred Tb is TRULY sportbred…proven pedigree (and not in the 3rd or 4th generation), then yes I would expect to pay more. Why should a TB cost any less than a WB just because it’s a TB and there are lots of OTTBs available who aren’t sportbred? Doesn’t cost any less to breed or feed them. It’s one of my pet peeves.
Ask yourself - if it was a choice between an OTTB or an imported “sport horse” which would you purchase?
All too often US folks will pay the money for an imported sport horse and discount the US bred sport horse. Have watched people do this for 30+ years.
My late instructor, Nancy Gosch, bred lovely sport horses specifically for eventing. However people, including students and their parents, would purchase horses from other sources instead of the homebreds. Then they would bring these horses in for her to “fix them.”:eek:
Yup the OTTB has a lot of experience and is used to many things/people/etc. However a well started sport horse doesn’t have some the quirks/problems some of the OTTB’s have from mismanagement.
A good horse is a good horse, no matter it’s beginning.
[QUOTE=fooler;7588794]
Ask yourself - if it was a choice between an OTTB or an imported “sport horse” which would you purchase?
All too often US folks will pay the money for an imported sport horse and discount the US bred sport horse. Have watched people do this for 30+ years.
My late instructor, Nancy Gosch, bred lovely sport horses specifically for eventing. However people, including students and their parents, would purchase horses from other sources instead of the homebreds. Then they would bring these horses in for her to “fix them.”:eek:
Yup the OTTB has a lot of experience and is used to many things/people/etc. However a well started sport horse doesn’t have some the quirks/problems some of the OTTB’s have from mismanagement.
A good horse is a good horse, no matter it’s beginning.[/QUOTE]
And there are just as many warmbloods and sport bred horses mismanaged as there are OTTB’s. It goes without saying that a well started horse will have less quirks than a mismanaged one.
I don’t think the imported warmblood crowd will make much difference when discussing the value of a project horse aimed at the market focused on usable and safe. However if we want to compare fruit, think about this: Why do people pass over home-breds for imports? Because the imports are already well trained and competitive. There are plenty of breeders here in the US and on this board that produce NICE horses, but very very few of them are available already trained and competing over 3’. Most of the (very nice) young horses for sale here are unstarted.
IMHO, there are too many other variables that are more important than whether the horse ever started an actual race.
(“Other things” are never equal.)
I would pay more for a horse that has specifically been bred for Eventing (by someone who has been successfully breeding TBs ofr Eventing), whether or not it has started a race, than a random "sprint-bred"TB that has raced and is now available.
But if we are talking about the SAME horse bred to race, offered for sale, before or after starting a race (or identical horses, one went to the track, the other stayed home)- I would probably slightly prefer the one that has raced a few times, is sound and sane, but just slow, or not interestied in racing.
Because I have the advantage of knowing the trainers I’ve gotten my OTTB’s from–and they’ve come from a top-rate track, I’ll choose one who’s raced. These horses are been around more scary stuff than they’ll see as a competition horse, have been handled by pros, and, especially if they’ve run a significant amount of races (current guy ran 47 times, won just under half a million), have learned to do a way tougher job than I’m going to expect of them. And they’ve stayed sound through all that. Don’t know that I’d be so quick to say this if I were dealing with bush league tracks or trainers I didn’t know.
From a breeder’s perspective, I breed more WB/TB crosses as I can typically command a higher price on them as youngsters (before they are started under saddle). It is just what the market is…
From a rider/buyer perspective…I’ve bought both OTTBs and sport TBs…and only ever bought ONE WB/TB cross and one Irish/TB cross…and likely never will buy another (I will breed them but not buy them).
Granted my sport TB was bred to run over fences not event…I bought her as a 4 year old (late in the year) for 10K. She was under saddle, WTC, green jumping but I saw her school xc for the first time and do ditches, water and banks easily. I got her that cheap as I knew the breeder…anyone else…she would have been closer to 20K. I lost her 5 year old year do to a pasture injury, competed her as a 6 year old…she started the year at Novice and ended the year at Prelim. NEVER any regrets buying her and she is now one of my broodmares.
Basically…as a buyer…I’d look at the individual horse. All things being equal (which they NEVER are)…I’d pay a bit more and take the sport bred horse just because of less wear and tear. That said…I currently own 5 OTTBs so I certainly do like the OTTBs as well!
The one thing no one has mentioned: studies have suggested that progressive loading programs done early (18mo +) can actually benefit tendon and ligament health and durability.
If one was an OTTB raced moderately, and the other a sport TB just started under saddle (and both were the same age) I would choose the OTTB. I think in terms of soundness longevity it’s beneficial for some to be started (appropriately) early as opposed to never worked until their third or fourth year.
And in my narrow experience, the ones started earlier usually last longer so long as they were started appropriately. And usually have better work ethics than their 3/4yr old peers.
[QUOTE=beowulf;7589211]
The one thing no one has mentioned: studies have suggested that progressive loading programs done early (18mo +) can actually benefit tendon and ligament health and durability.
If one was an OTTB raced moderately, and the other a sport TB just started under saddle (and both were the same age) I would choose the OTTB. I think in terms of soundness longevity it’s beneficial for some to be started (appropriately) early as opposed to never worked until their third or fourth year.
And in my narrow experience, the ones started earlier usually last longer so long as they were started appropriately. And usually have better work ethics than their 3/4yr old peers.[/QUOTE]
I do think people mis-interpret those studies. Progressive loading is one thing…but race training is generally much more extreme than what is suggested to be beneficial.
While I’ve certainly had many sound OTTBs…I’ve also had 4 year olds who I had to put down because their joints were so thrashed that they were not even pasture sound and others with life long soundness issues that came from racing.
I do think though that if a horse has been stressed by racing…and is sound…they are likely going to hold up to what I ask of them. BUT there are a whole lot who do not hold up and that would have been fine as sport horses if they had not been stressed as much as youngsters racing.
The difficulty is in finding the the ones not over stressed…or the ones where the damage is fixable and will not cause long term issues.
All that said…I’ve known many young horses to get hurt in their stall or in the field…sometimes, just get them to live past the age of 5 is a big deal!!!
My rescue TB is unraced
I got my tb as an unbroke unraced long 3 year old from the rescue facility - dam was retired to farm pregnant. The farm gets a lot of foals, btw.
He still managed to injure himself all kinds of ways as he grew and he apparently inherited the 0 to 60mph start and the go faster if the reins get tighter inclination. So I like to tell people he never raced but you wouldn’t know it if you didn’t already know.
I paid the rescue fee and then paid for all of his pro training, but doing it this way, I gambled and got a fantastic jumper, one I could never have afforded if anyone else had had the chance to evaluate him first.
