OTTBs' in Big Eq classes

[MHM]

@vineyridge

It was reported a couple of years ago that Boyd Martin sold a very high event horse to be an Equitation horse. It was, IIRC, an Irish Sport Horse. That horse won the eventing showcase at Wellington a couple of years ago with Boyd. At a time when Boyd was broken, Phillip Dutton was selected with the horse and went to WEG in eventing. Horse’s name was/is Trading Aces.

His new owner didn’t do badly with him. She got quite a few decent placings. But she only seems to have used him for one year, and there aren’t any USEF results for him after 2016.

See the link above in post #126. Sadly, the horse passed away unexpectedly in the fall of 2016, so his career was cut short.

[RugBug]

@NCRider

Picking poggio II as an example of OTTB jumping tells me you’re not event trying to have an honest discussion. My favorite event horse ever but his jumping style was infamously unconventional even for an Eventer.

If you want to stick with Amy, Leyland is a better example or look at one of Lynn Symanskys OTTB rides over the years. Or event better don’t limit yourself to upper lever eventers.

I don’t follow eventing in any way that gives me easy access to breeds of the horses or even names of horses.* Amy and Poggio came to mind quickly and didn’t require too much effort. After finding and article about how much TB blood the horses winning/placing at top levels have…and only seeing a few noted as 100%, I decided to go with easy. I offered up Parklane Hawk too, videos I could readily find of Phillip Dutton were not on TBs but rather Lots of Irish sport horses. Definitely see a lot of those.

Please feel free to educate me with videos of eventing TBs going round in a manner that will be successful in the Big Eq. Bonus points for training and above ridden by a teenager.

FWIW- I recently watched the showing jumping for the NAYRC at Rebecca Farm. I’m sure there were some TBs in the group, just like I’m sure there were plenty that weren’t. At this point I wouldn’t remember specific rounds anyway…even if I knew the horses was TB.

*i barely follow my own disciplines. Sometimes I can give you some names, but right now, all the hunters I can come up with are from a number of years ago. I just don’t enjoy spectating that much unless it’s live…and being on the west coast, I will never see most of the big ones

[Midge]

@mmeqcenter

LOL I don’t have any, I’ve seen listings on Facebook (they’re thoroughbreds). I didn’t save them, I’m not looking for another horse.

Oh. When I think of 3’6" winners with lots of experience and are packers, I think of them as having some level of name recognition. Someone saying that in a sales ad is something quite different.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

RugBug…most eventers that I know were sold into EQ were not high level horses. Eventers show at 3’6 at the mid level (Prelim). 1* is 3’9". If they are easy to ride…they tend to be sold to Young Riders or into the show world. These horses are NOT sold cheap. High 5 figure or low 6 is not uncommon. Two that I know personally that were TBs were not going to be 4* event horses because they jumped too round for xc (which wastes energy and time) and had slight water issues. Last I heard they’re were successful eq horses. Probably not famous ones but still good at their jobs.

People are generally not too stupid…if they do horses for a living, they direct horses to the market they will sell. And many professional event riders have connections with show people and will redirect horses in that direction if they are more suitable. Regardless of the breeding.

eta: and yes, eventers Ride more than just TBs. at all levels. Generally speaking, we don’t care whether it is a WB, TB or whatever as long as it can do the job. But when aiming to do the UL…most want full or close to full TB but they want ones that can move and jump well and have the gallop. Those are rare regardless of breed to find for the highest levels. To start with the right raw material isn’t that hard to find though…to train and manage (soundness) tend to be the hard part. Really in any of the sports.

[RugBug]

@bornfreenowexpensive

RugBug…most eventers that I know were sold into EQ were not high level horses. Eventers show at 3’6 at the mid level (Prelim). 1* is 3’9". If they are easy to ride…they tend to be sold to Young Riders or into the show world. These horses are NOT sold cheap. High 5 figure or low 6 is not uncommon. Two that I know personally that were TBs were not going to be 4* event horses because they jumped too round for xc (which wastes energy and time) and had slight water issues. Last I heard they’re were successful eq horses. Probably not famous ones but still good at their jobs.

People are generally not too stupid…if they do horses for a living, they direct horses to the market they will sell. And many professional event riders have connections with show people and will redirect horses in that direction if they are more suitable. Regardless of the breeding.

eta: and yes, eventers Ride more than just TBs. at all levels. Generally speaking, we don’t care whether it is a WB, TB or whatever as long as it can do the job. But when aiming to do the UL…most want full or close to full TB but they want ones that can move and jump well and have the gallop. Those are rare regardless of breed to find for the highest levels. To start with the right raw material isn’t that hard to find though…to train and manage (soundness) tend to be the hard part. Really in any of the sports.

BFNE - I overall agree with you. But tangents about lower level Eq horses and what eventers are riding these days is just off topic, I brought it up because of the difficulty I was having finding a 100% TB (and subsequently finding a show jumping video. I know breed is listed in USEA, but I have to know the horse’s name to do that…and really the only ones I know, other than friends horse’s, are UL horses. (I just looked up the horses of the 25 young riders at NAYRC - 8 are TB. The rest are some sort of WB, and it’s understood that they most likely have a high percentage of TB blood.

But that’s beside the point. The OP asked if any OTTB had made it to the Big Eq finals in recent years. And then the eventers stockpiled after an admittedly inflamatory comment that was to broad for productive conversation. But the comment from Reed was also off point…and really heated things up.

You’re right, people aren’t stupid…so where are all these TBs that would be awesome Big Eq horses? Again, someone is just sitting on a goldmine when you can lease a proven Eq Horse for $50k for ONE show. Why hasn’t someone figured out how to tap into that? It’s because they are no longer the right fit. The requirements have changed too much. Mac123 did a great job of delving into many of the reasons, and she was dismissed.

[poltroon]

There are an awful lot of fancy “Warmbloods of unrecorded breeding” out there. I suspect that many of them may have forgotten their true breed heritage. A little TB here, a little QH there…

We live in a world where putting mileage and training on a horse is so much cheaper in Europe that it covers the cost of a plane ride.

A nice horse is a nice horse, and if its breeding or history is inconvenient, the hunter/jumper world is really good at forgetting. I don’t think there’s nefarious conspiracy stopping anyone from training up nice TBs and if they get to the ring under the top riders I’m sure they’d win just fine. There are pipeline and fashion reasons why they aren’t getting there right now.

In the racing world, which breeds most of the TBs we have access to, they need a type that’s a bit more downhill and a bit lighter than what we want for sport.

The ideal type for jumping today’s courses is either a heavier TB physique or a lighter WB physique, and surprise, the best purpose-bred horses are a result of crossing between those.

[RAyers]

@RugBug

…

But the comment from Reed was also off point…and really heated things up.

…

I love tossing a good grenade into a situation.

I am happy to discuss nuances, but I am tired of this absolutism also expressed.

Bruce Davidson’s Eagle Lion (Rolex, Badminton, etc.) was sold as a top equitation horse. I don’t know where the horse ended or what the new name was.

Poltroon, I do take exception with the comment, " …they need a type that’s a bit more downhill and a bit lighter than what we want for sport." Most track folks I know have never said that. They know the horses still have to push from the hind to get speed. At the same time, OTTBs are generally skeletally immature in their racing careers so they appear to be downhill. As I noted, my OTTBs are mistaken for WBs after they grow and are retrained. I don’t change the genetics.

[Synthesis]

@Mac123

Absolutely. The nice OTTBs that are sound and well suited for the h/j/e rings I’ve seen are usually around $2500-$3500 right off the track, and the successful ones that have good show records in the 3’ or 3’6 are selling for mid 5 figures. Not as expensive as a warmblood, to be sure, but not chump change either (for me, anyway!).

LOL Now this is an accurate view of the current OTTB market. I have one of those I picked up the end of last year to develop for eventing. He may actually want to be a hunter :lol:, with an incredible lopey uphill canter and wonderful knees. God, I could two point that canter forever. Its been a revelation.

I’m hoping to bring him around to my way of thinking, since I enjoy having things like civilized ride times :winkgrin:.

[snaffle1987]

I find this thread to be the perfect opportunity for everyone to go out and purchase an OTTB and get it in the ring at the upper levels. Be the change.

[fordtraktor]

@RAyers

I love tossing a good grenade into a situation.

I am happy to discuss nuances, but I am tired of this absolutism also expressed.

Bruce Davidson’s Eagle Lion (Rolex, Badminton, etc.) was sold as a top equitation horse. I don’t know where the horse ended or what the new name was.

Poltroon, I do take exception with the comment, " …they need a type that’s a bit more downhill and a bit lighter than what we want for sport." Most track folks I know have never said that. They know the horses still have to push from the hind to get speed. At the same time, OTTBs are generally skeletally immature in their racing careers so they appear to be downhill. As I noted, my OTTBs are mistaken for WBs after they grow and are retrained. I don’t change the genetics.

i think it was Lion King that was sold to be a hunter/Eq horse. Super horse, I saw him compete a lot at Virginia A shows in the 90s. I think he was most successful as a Junior Hunter. They showed him under the same name.

EtA it was the early 2000s. Long COTH thread about it that somehow devolved into People of Walmart. Fun to see some old names! https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/eventing/2366-lion-king-gelded/page10

[RugBug]

@fordtraktor

i think it was Lion King that was sold to be a hunter/Eq horse. Super horse, I saw him compete a lot at Virginia A shows in the 90s. I think he was most successful as a Junior Hunter. They showed him under the same name.

EtA it was the early 2000s. Long COTH thread about it that somehow devolved into People of Walmart. Fun to see some old names! https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/eventing/2366-lion-king-gelded/page10

OMG! I remember that thread. Lion King was a baynut, if I remember correctly. Good times.

[vxf111]

It was Lion King and he was a hunter not a big eq horse. I remember him because of his unusual coloring!

[MHM]

@vxf111

It was Lion King and he was a hunter not a big eq horse. I remember him because of his unusual coloring!

I think there was more than one Lion King, because I believe there was a very successful equitation horse by that name. He won a lot with several different riders, as I recall.

[vxf111]

@MHM

I think there was more than one Lion King, because I believe there was a very successful equitation horse by that name. He won a lot with several different riders, as I recall.

That’s not the one that was Bruce’s though. I pretty vividly remember that one being gelded and sold as a small junior hunter. The owner may have dabbled in some eq too, I don’t know, but the primary job was the hunters.

[RugBug]

@vxf111

That’s not the one that was Bruce’s though. I pretty vividly remember that one being gelded and sold as a small junior hunter. The owner may have dabbled in some eq too, I don’t know, but the primary job was the hunters.

Yes… Bruce Davidson’s horse was the eventer turned small jr. hunter, was a bay-chestnut and was a stallion that was gelded. The jr. that bought him posted here a bit, didn’t she?

[ynl063w]

@snaffle1987

I find this thread to be the perfect opportunity for everyone to go out and purchase an OTTB and get it in the ring at the upper levels. Be the change.

I suggested this very thing pages ago!

[MHM]

@vxf111

That’s not the one that was Bruce’s though. I pretty vividly remember that one being gelded and sold as a small junior hunter. The owner may have dabbled in some eq too, I don’t know, but the primary job was the hunters.

I think the Lion King that did the equitation was bay, although I won’t swear to it by this time. That was quite a while ago.

There are probably plenty of horses that make career changes between different disciplines for various reasons without much attention. The reason Amber Eyes/Commentary was so well known in the first place was because there was a little article about her by the Chronicle before her debut as a hunter. And then things snowballed from there. :lol:

But lots of horses probably do the same thing without making such a splash.

[retiredhorse]

@MHM

I think the Lion King that did the equitation was bay, although I won’t swear to it by this time. That was quite a while ago.

Is this a different Lion King?

[MHM]

@retiredhorse

Is this a different Lion King?

Hmm. That rider’s name does not ring a bell with me, so I don’t know. That one looks like a lovely horse, though.

[RugBug]

@retiredhorse

Is this a different Lion King?

Yes.