Hi, I was wondering if any OTTB has made it to any Big Eq finals in recent years, all I can find are Warmbloods after Warmbloods after Warmbloods.
I’ve only ever seen 1, in a Maclay class not a final, but if a thoroughbred has the potential there’s no reason they couldn’t do the big eq classes
I’ve seen plenty at local A and B shows. Much less at AAs and virtually none at finals. It can be done of course… I’ve ridden many lovely, scopey, adjustable thoroughbreds. For many just getting around is a great accomplishment. But finals courses are designed with a 17.2hh warmblood in mind, long gone are the bold galloping tracks that favor a tb. For a rider who plans to be competitive, it would be wise to seek out a warmblood.
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A good perspective would be to watch the old Maclay finals at MSG on Youtube and compare them with today’s courses. I know of no Throughbred that has the step and adjustability of today’s warmbloods.
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Are you people serious? I just watched TBs carry 16’-18’ steps, adjust down to a 13’ 3’6" bounce, adjust back up to a 3’9" oxer/oxer combination at 55’ and do it in an easy 4. Oh, and to do this on real terrain. The WBs seemed to lug and add in all the time, and struggle to actually get over the fences.
The only reason courses are made for the “adjustability of today’s warmbloods” is because the competitors are on hyper-prepped horses with riders who don’t have the skills need to ride and train the TB. And the people who think the TB can’t do what the WB can do are brainwashed into that concept.
The idea that a 17.2 hh horse is needed to ride a medal class?! Obviously, one has to have the size to be able to adjust the stride from 12’-12’6". Or maybe to be able to roll back? Or is it so the kids can think they aren’t jumping big because they have a tank to point and click because they are afraid to kick up to a bigger fence?
The attitude expressed here shows how ludicrous the concept of horsemanship in the insulated world of the show ring has become.
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They are certainly out there. It just means putting in a little bit of work to find them and get them to that level. There are plenty that are 17 hands with a huge stride if that’s your thing, too.
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@RAyers AMEN! :applause:
This from a rider old enough to remember when Non-TB was a division with very few entries 
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Of course a TB can do this. I truly believe it’s simply a matter of fashion. Most don’t want to put in the work, and no one (especially younger riders) wants to “stick out” on a TB. I’m hoping this will start to change over the next years. We will see.
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AMEN! These horses are out there! There are GOOD thoroughbreds out there that can easily be competitive in the big eq, hunters and jumpers! Most people these days are just to lazy to try to go and find it. Which is a shame, because with some knowledge and a little bit of luck, you could pick up a competitive derby or GP prospect for next to nothing if you put WORK into it.
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I think many Thoroughbreds can do this job. No one is training them for this job though. The trainers seek out the Eq Horses which tend to be well trained Warmbloods that lack scope for jumpers or the movement/jump for the hunters. They (the trainer and rider) are usually in a time crunch so there is no time to make up a horse to do the job. Maybe the TB Makeover could start some classes for OTTB’s that have shown for two and three years post Makeover to showcase these amazing athletes? How cool would that be?!
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Say what you want, but show me proof of this Thoroughbred that has the step and adjustability of today’s warmbloods. I grew up and rode in the 1970’s and early 1980’s on Thoroughbreds. They were bold and careful and the nice ones were in a league of their own. The courses have changed in both Show jumping and equitation and to some degree even the hunters. The Show ring is not going back to the courses of old. Riders today are not lazy, just different. The medal equitation courses are extremely technical now.
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COTH had an article a few years ago about an OTTB who went to Maclay finals just recently. I think I recall it was the first time for both horse and rider, and they didn’t place, but got around.
@RAyers Pretty much agree.
Adjustability is a matter of training, not innate ability (I’ll admit it didn’t always feel trainable on my mare =p) There are plenty of big strided horses out there. The TB isn’t as common in the big jumpers now because the course design, IMO, makes it more difficult for the TB way of going, but I’m not sure that’s applicable to the equitation.
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Why don’t you find and train one to do the job? Besides the time crunch was always there. Even the top Eq horses back in the day we’re riden by several different riders. Made equitation horses have always been the norm at the big finals. It is not a new phenomenan. The Disney movie " The Horse in the Grey Flannel Suit" alluded to that.
Oh, honey, so did I. And I still compete to this day. I know courses and judging criteria have changed. And, ironically, I changed my training methodology to match as needed. I still stick to the TBs. most of folks seem to think my OTTBs are WBs because we are in the ring.
Riders today ARE different. They ARE lazy. We had to take crap from the pasture to go to indoors. They are not motivated to become horsemen and do the work needed to create a solid thinking horse.
And I’m happy to show you my TBs because they go up and compete against the WBs on equal footing and win.
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Your post is much less advocating for the thoroughbred and much more insulting the equitation division. Do you think a a 13’ bounce to a 55’ four is the hardest these courses get? That would be a mid-level equitation question. It’s much more common to be trying to walk a 65’ four. A stride with a range from 12’ - 12’6" is not considered adjustable at all. One year at medal finals was an 84’ six stride (yes. it walked dead on seven and everyone did six), back to a 27’ one into a 55ish four stride. Can a thoroughbred do that? Absolutely. But please don’t act like everyone is cantering down 12’ lines.
Did I say you need a 17.2hh warmblood? No. But is that was course designers cater towards? Yes. And these kids do not need to “think they aren’t jumping big”. Half of them are getting off an equitation horse and getting on a 1.45m jumper so I’m not sure where that thought came from. I understand you view them as lazy, but I’m not really sure why. They joined a sport that was already solidly favoring warmbloods. Many many kids today would LOVE the opportunity to “pull something out of the pasture to take to indoors.” Unfortunately it’s just not realistic anymore. You can put in all the amazing, correct, training you can find into that horse and it’s still more than likely not going to be competitive against six figure imports. That’s not the kid’s fault.
There are many amazing, scopey, adjustable thoroughbreds out there. I’ve ridden plenty and I love them. Unfortunately, they often don’t get a second glance in the show ring. The famous hunters from the 70s and 80s would not win today. That doesn’t make them lesser horses, that just means that trends have changed. That is definitely not the fault of a bunch of teenagers.
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If we’re really talking competitive pairings in Big Eq finals, the age-old TB vs. WB debate doesn’t even come close to the extent to which the deck is stacked. When was the last time someone not from North Run, Beacon Hill, Heritage, or Don Stewart’s barn won the Maclay? Quite often the made horses from those barns are just as recognizable, if not more so, than the kids piloting them around.
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I would love to!
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/standing-out-sea-warmbloods
Here’s the article I mentioned before, in case OP or anyone else is interested. My apologies for misremembering - it was the Medal finals, not the Maclay.
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