So the REALITY is, it’s NOT the horse, it’s the BARN AND WHO YOU RIDE WITH that dictates the win. Good job developing real horsemen in the equitation world. This is an example of how incestuous that world has become and how locked out new talent is.
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I just want to add that there are many wonderful riders who have come through those programs–this certainly isn’t a slam at their horsemanship. But there is a reason that even families where the parents are very experienced trainers themselves move heaven and earth so their children can ride with those barns, if they think the child has a chance of winning. And it’s not just warmbloods, I think it’s fair to say that it’s a particular type of horse, with a particular way of going (usually rather flat, in a way that allows the rider to show off his or her position) that tends to have a career in those finals.
Of course, I’m talking about the very highest levels (and what I’ve read and observed, not from personal experience I hasten to add).
On a very local level, as others have said, I’ve known many riders to do extremely well on TBs in the equitation.
The issue everyone is having is that it was stated that TBs do not have the step, adjustabilty etc of the warmbloods. Full stop. I beg to differ with my own mare I am bringing along who has a 12’ stride when she is behind my leg. That being said, you are not wrong about course and fashion (horse) changes. Do I think people could win on aTB? Yes. Do I think out current culture is the “I want it now culture”? Yes. Therefore, the current culture does not allow for a TB, because who wants to take the time to develope them in the gimmie now culture, to be successful WRT the Maclay.
Really though, do not tell me my mare is not adjustable, or does not have the step to compete in technical courses just because shes a TB. I can show you better than I can tell you.
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As I said in the first paragraph, a tb can absolutely have the stride and adjustability for these courses. 
I am slightly confused by the “gimmie now” culture. Warmbloods also need to be broke and trained. You can make your own or you can buy a made one, same with a thoroughbred. Some kids learn to train a green one and some have parents who buy them a made one. Less of a breed issue and more of a sport dominated by money issue.
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Well yes, but how many of the kids actually made their horses, as opposed to buying or leasing? WRT the gimmie now culture, the person who asserted TBs can’t, also asserted there is not enough time. I wasn’t speaking to you directly, just clarifying why people got their back up and said TBs are just as good and kids today are lazy. It was in direct response to the poster who made sweeping statements about breeds and said kids do not have enough time to get horses to that level. That is the issue. Kids do not have the time nor the talent to bring the TB along because of money. It is what it is. TBs can definately get around todays courses with style and kids could, if properly mentored, could make a TB up the levels.
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With regards to the assertion that people don’t want to “take the time” to develop a TB into a top equitation mount: do you think that warmbloods come out of the womb knowing how to perfectly execute a Medal Finals course? The truth is, if TBs were as well or better suited to the job than warmbloods, we would see more of them at the top levels. Trainers, parents, and kids expend a whole lot of blood, sweat, tears, and money to get to the top; if TBs were just as likely as warmbloods to get them there, you would see TBs in the equitation ring because they are much, much cheaper than warmbloods. A whole lot of someones with time and talent, but not a whole lot of money, would have proven by now that the $500 OTTBs are just as good at the job as the six figure warmbloods, and then those $500 OTTBs would be selling for six figures. No name trainers with all the time in the world would be turning themselves into big name trainers in droves with their talented-but-poor-OTTB-riding-kids.
There is no conspiracy or discrimination in the hunter/jumper/equitation world against thoroughbreds. These disciplines are big business for a whole lot of people who are trying to win as much as possible while spending as little as possible. If the big winners of the future were living at the local racetrack, the top trainers would be shopping there instead of in Europe. It’s not rocket science.
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If kids today really are lazy as you say, they aren’t going to make up their own TB any more than they are making up their own warmbloods. So the question is, why aren’t those of you who are so sure that TBs are just as good as warmbloods buying them off the track, turning them into to[p equitation mounts, and selling them to these lazy kids for six figures?
Why are all of you wasting your time crying here about the injustices of the hunter/equitation world with regards to the OTTB, instead of putting your mouth where the money is?
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Because I have already learned, after a hiatus with horses, many people do know how to coach a person on or ride a TB. Could just be my area though.
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So I completely agree with you.
I think where there is misunderstanding is that what some people seem to be getting at isn’t so much that WBs don’t need to be trained, they’re more or less saying that kids aren’t “taking the time” to learn to ride TBs (or make them up or whatever).You know, “real” horses, that you pull out of a pasture, even if it’s a crappy horse, instead of finding one that could be more suitable for the job; it’s the idea that WBs are super easy and you can prop anyone on them, who doesn’t really know how to ride or train a horse, and they can win at medal finals, with the right BNT at the gate. The “lazy” way to do it. Because it would be IMPOSSIBLE to do that with a TB, you have to KNOW HOW TO RIDE and NOT BE LAZY to sit on one of those and get it around a course.
It sounds kind of like saying someone who only drives an automatic vehicle doesn’t really know how to drive because they don’t know how to drive a manual. I’m fine with being that kind of lazy. Hard enough to get to medal finals and around the course even when stacking the deck in your favor ($$$, WB that’s already won medal finals, BNTs at the gate, etc). Or commuting without worrying about changing gears; I mean, I kind of learned when I was 16 (and my first horse was a TB), but I drive automatic now.
Trainers, parents, and kids expend a whole lot of blood, sweat, tears, and money to get to the top; if TBs were just as likely as warmbloods to get them there, you would see TBs in the equitation ring because they are much, much cheaper than warmbloods. A whole lot of someones with time and talent, but not a whole lot of money, would have proven by now that the $500 OTTBs are just as good at the job as the six figure warmbloods, and then those $500 OTTBs would be selling for six figures. No name trainers with all the time in the world would be turning themselves into big name trainers in droves with their talented-but-poor-OTTB-riding-kids.
More seriously, I think this is a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. Because how do you find a suitable TB, if you’re a “lazy” horse buyer? Eg, I have nothing against TBs, but if I were looking for another horse, I’d want another hunter (or one that could do hunters/eq/derbies)… And while I wouldn’t rule out TBs, especially one with a nice cinderella story, but I wouldn’t look only at TBs and most people I know have WBs. So those would probably be the majority of what I was looking at. I have no great desire to prove people wrong, I would just want a nice horse to ride.
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I think I love you.
In my Very limited hunter showing 40 years ago, I had an odd duck—a Morgan who showed against the Thoroughbred hunters. I don’t think, at that time, that the strides HAD to be X; my Morgan could add a stride and make it look as smooth as a Thoroughbred’s. The problem was that I was nowhere as good a rider as those riding the Thoroughbreds. 
I had a 17 hand Thoroughbred once (Arbor Gate, by Apalachee, out of Look To Me), an OTTB that I hoped to event. However, divorce and, therefore, much more limited finances ended that. He had a rocking chair canter, would Gallop if you asked him, and was adjustable (to my surprise). His NORMAL walk was a 12" overstride; I never checked to see what it would be if I asked him for an extended walk.
My personality suits a Morgan better. However, since my current and previous Morgans both have/had (differing forms of) cancer, IF I get another horse (I am nearly 64 years OLD), I am considering an off-the-track Standardbred. I would like to compete again, at a more Equal sport–eventing.
Just my personal experience and thoughts…
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You completely missed my point. I wasn’t speaking to the so-called lazy kids who don’t want to learn to ride (they certainly HAVE learned to ride, and they are much better riders from a technical perspective than their counterparts thirty years ago); I was speaking to the oh so talented but penniless people here who claim that OTTBs are just as talented as warmbloods but no one will bother to take the time to train them right, because they are such a completely different species than a warmblood that you have to be super special talented to ride one (completely not true). THOSE are the people I challenged to go to the racetrack and turn a $500 OTTB into a top equitation mount and sell it to those lazy warmblood riding kids for six figures. Or even high five figures – they’re still making a big profit. Why would they NOT do this? Why are they sitting in front of their computers defending OTTBs on the COTH forums instead of getting off their butts and making some big bucks turning these dirt cheap horses into future Medal and Maclay winners?
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Granted, the source is Horse Show Boyfriend on Twitter, but assuming his data is correct, no barn outside “the big four” has won any of the eq finals in seven years (I don’t think you need to be on Twitter to see the graphic):
https://twitter.com/HorseShowBF/status/927282757834870786
Again, you need way more than a nice warmblood to be competitive. I realize we could argue all day whether it is politics, a winning coaching formula, or just that the programs siphon up the types of horses and riders that they think are likely to be pleasing to the judging criteria, but regardless, it’s not a level playing field.
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This ^
I was around in the 70s and 80s and TBs then are not the same as most of the ones I see now in many ways. Shows and courses have changed too as we have moved on from the charity shows that ran a week or two to corporate shows that are now the norm and run for many weeks and involve many types of courses. It is such a different world now than when the TB was the breed of choice.
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I had a thoroughbred with a huge range of stride length, athletic ability, and adjustability. Sadly, he was kind of a chicken.
Not a big eq final and it’s at 3’3", but the winner of last year’s junior LA County medal final was riding a TB. Bred by an event rider, IIRC.
I wonder if there are medal finals winners outside the “big four” barns if you consider where they normally ride, as opposed to the team that helps them at finals.
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Because I dislike the politics and culture of it all. Because I have a career and discovered eventing allows me to not be micromanaged nor judged on politics. Because I hate a push ride, because I hate the same thing over and over, because I love riding over terrain that changes and my challenge is not perfection in eight but rather perfection in trust and teamwork.
And yes I ride dressage because I have to and I know it’s good for me.
Oh and I like being at shows where people don’t pass judgement because I show up on my OTTB.
I dont hate any breed, what I hate is the high and right of those who make sweeping judgements on a particular breed.
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But who is making sweeping judgments about thoroughbreds? I don’t know of anyone involved in the top levels of the jumping disciplines who speaks negatively about thoroughbreds. TBs generally aren’t purchased by those at the top levels of the hunters and equitation, but tractors generally aren’t purchased by those who race cars either. That doesn’t mean that those who race cars think that tractors are worthless and beneath them; they simply aren’t appropriate for car racing.
These arguments defending TBs as the best of the best come up frequently, and they just seem odd to me. Those at the top of the sport are always going to buy whatever is best suited to their needs - if that was the TB, the TB would be the breed of choice. TBs are not being used because they are not the best at hunters/jumpers/equitation anymore. They are bred to run fast at short distances. Warmblood fans aren’t asking why warmbloods aren’t being given a chance at the racetrack. Maybe TB fans should cheer them on at what they are bred to do? I’m not crying to everyone on the dressage forum that my favorite show hunters aren’t cleaning up at the dressage shows.
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People are responding to posts on this thread. Reading for comprehension goes a long way. So reread the thread, realize people are responding to individuals in this thread and not the industry at large. K? Thanks bye.
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Your welcome. Laugh all you want, but the truth is what is in front of you, not what you believe to be true. I wish the courses of today favored Thoroughbreds. That is what I learned to ride on. I am just stating facts on what is going on in today’s hunter/Jumper/equitation world. You and RAyers can continue to live in the past all you want. The show world and the horse market has changed. Sorry you are too stubborn to see it.
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Please accept my sincerest apologies for confusing you. You accused “the high and right of those who make sweeping judgements on a particular breed” of making, well, sweeping judgments on a particular breed, which, if we are following this thread, is the thoroughbred. I simply asked you who these people are, because I don’t see any sweeping judgments. Additionally, my responses here are more in line with following the flow of the conversation of this thread than your last contribution, which was quite personal in nature and really did not add any substance to the topic. That you feel that your dislike of a push ride and hating the same things over and over is more on topic than my question to you speaks more to your reading comprehension ability than it does to mine.
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The only fact you posted is that warmbloods are favored and the courses/judging have changed. What is not fact is TBs don’t have the stride or adjustability. So yes I laugh.
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