our new dog attacked my horse--can this be fixed?

[aliceo]

i don’t want to spend the first two weeks with my dog in lockdown. if the dog needs that degree of isolation to settle in and relax and be himself, then he is a problem dog. and if he’s a problem dog, i want to know right away.

having said that, OF COURSE the dog will be on a leash at all times, of course he will be introduced to new stimuli in a gradual and controlled fashion, of course i will be constantly observing his affect, behavior, and reactions to judge how he is adjusting and what he needs.

the dog we tried out was an extreme case. i dont want to set up an extreme case to succeed. i want to find out what he is asap, before we bond with him.

as it is, we do miss this dog! it has been a very tough couple of weeks.

the dog belongs with a single woman with no other dogs who will compete in dog sports with him. i hope he finds that home.

[vacation1]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8453204]
Annnnnndddd welcome Vacation with the same old pit bull BS. Do you miraculously have the dogs genetic history? Because it’s been labeled as a boxer or boxer/bulldog mix in the news. Where’s that rolls eyes emoji when you need it?[/QUOTE]

Everyone who has anything to do with dogs or shelters knows that “Boxer” or “Bulldog” in a shelter dog’s description means “Pit bull we’re desperate to get off our hands because we have another 75 of them and nobody wants any of them, and we went no-kill last spring.”

You don’t need an emoji, you need a moral compass. That would let you face the ugly fact that pit bulls are the majority of shelter dogs and euthanized dogs, and it’s virtually certain that a dog with bulldog characteristics in a shelter or rescue got them from a pit bull, not a Boxer. The pits are virtually the only dogs left in the US whose owners breed them as if it’s still 1970 and spay/neuter was for rich folk. It’s not ‘haters’ with ‘labels’ and ‘bs’ who are doing this - it’s you. People like you are the reason a ton of dead pit bulls are dumped into landfills every day.

[vacation1]

[QUOTE=S1969;8453434]
So, how do shelters “test out” their dogs with kids? With horses? Cats? Other dogs? The answer - they don’t. How could they do this? That requires a “rescue operation with a really good foster program” - not a shelter.[/QUOTE]

Shelters do test for temperament. The problem is when they test for temperament and then release dogs which should be euthanized. You see it all the time - ‘rescue only’ dogs who can’t complete temperament tests and which the shelter is releasing only to rescue groups - as if the rescue group can miraculously grow a good temperament in a dangerous dog. Then there are the ‘dog-aggressive’ dogs who need single-pet homes, fearful dogs who need childless homes or homes without men, etc., etc.

I’m not a fan of euthanizing dogs. But shelters are not solely in the business of preserving the lives of ownerless animals. Part of their mission is to improve the situation of ownerless animals overall. And that mission gets screwed royally every single time an adopted animal hurts someone. And that rate is rising. Multiple dogs this year have KILLED people after being adopted from shelters and rescues. The Rottie recently, a pit bull last Christmas, and a few others I can’t recall off the top of my head. That’s the most extreme situation. The lesser ones, where adopted dogs have killed other dogs, attacked/mauled dogs and people and animals - those also kill public trust in shelters and rescues. Once you kill that trust, you will have to work overtime to get it back. There are massive mistakes being made in the shelter world re: euthanasia choices, and those mistakes are literally killing people. We can’t simply say it’s an adopter’s responsibility to watch a new pet like it’s a tiger; if that’s the standard for adoption, most people are going to buy a purebred 12-week-old puppy from a breeder. And then the euthanizations will really start in shelters.

[AddieMarie]

So. Our dog isn’t a “horse dog”. She barks at horses. So, simply, she doesn’t come to the barn. And it’s all good.
Most barns around here frown on dogs being brought in…
Would it be so terrible to have a dog who can’t come to the barn? It isn’t for us. And we rent a house on the property of our barn. Our dog just doesn’t go there with us.

[Chase23]

To the OP - sorry you are going through this. I am returning a dog tomorrow and it’s a hard thing. Mine has separation anxiety (which I think the rescue knew and didn’t disclose). He tore up carpet tonight in two hours alone. I have decided long ago for my own reasons that I cannot take on separation anxiety ( and made it known to rescue) So sadly he’s going back.

It’s hard when you feel judged. Do what’s best for you and the dog.

[Countrywood]

Multiple dogs have killed people after being adopted from shelter/rescue this year? Really? That would have been all over the news if it were true. There was that one tragic case reported. Dogs killing people is extremely rare and when it does happen can be a family pet owned since a puppy .

There are rescues that take on dogs with a known history and know if it were on a ranch or around horses. Of course that dog may be great with horses and have other issues! Whether we take on a dog or a puppy, we rarely get so lucky we get a perfect animal that needs little training or work. I got that lucky once and though I love all the dogs I’ve had since then, it never happened again.

[cbv]

[QUOTE=AddieMarie;8457720]
So. Our dog isn’t a “horse dog”. She barks at horses…
Would it be so terrible to have a dog who can’t come to the barn? It isn’t for us. [/QUOTE]

It is a problem if spending time at the barn is a big part of the reason you want a dog as a companion. And barking at horses is bothersome but very different than physically attacking horses.

The point of having trial periods with dogs is to find out if they will be a good fit. No one should feel guilty if the they decide during a trial that the dog is not a good fit. Especially when the issue is one of aggression of any kind. Very different than fixing a counter surfer or establishing a recall or building a higher fence for a jumper.

It is great the OP is willing to keep looking to adopt. My horses and dogs both live at my home. I won’t take on an adult dog – only puppies – because for me it is easier to start them around horses from the get go than try and retrain an adult.

[thatmoody]

I guess my daughter is lucky that none of the dogs she’s tested have killed anyone :P. They do temperament test at her shelter (using many of the listed techniques) as well as testing them with cats, other dogs, doing playgroups with them to further observe interactions, etc. What I think shelters need to do BETTER, OTOH (and this is an issue at the one my daughter works at) is communicate that all of the testing in the world doesn’t necessarily hit EVERY issue the dog is going to face, nor exactly replicate a home environment. Luckily for most of these dogs, there is no way they will EVER face as much stress as they do in a shelter environment, but the public needs to understand that all they can say is that in THIS particular environment, the dog exhibited “x” behavior. They do get a referral to a trainer when they adopt, but I’m sure most never follow through. We understand that, but I am sure most of the public does not.

I think the key is communicating and listening, between the shelter and the potential adopter. Both sides have to communicate their REAL needs and observations, which can be difficult when you want to get dogs OUT of there. They do do continuing ed at my daughter’s place - she just went up for an intensive 2 day seminar in behavioral modification in play groups, but there is only so much you can learn/do/control in a very fast-paced and stressful environment.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=thatmoody;8457915]
I guess my daughter is lucky that none of the dogs she’s tested have killed anyone :P. They do temperament test at her shelter (using many of the listed techniques) as well as testing them with cats, other dogs, doing playgroups with them to further observe interactions, etc. What I think shelters need to do BETTER, OTOH (and this is an issue at the one my daughter works at) is communicate that all of the testing in the world doesn’t necessarily hit EVERY issue the dog is going to face, nor exactly replicate a home environment. Luckily for most of these dogs, there is no way they will EVER face as much stress as they do in a shelter environment, but the public needs to understand that all they can say is that in THIS particular environment, the dog exhibited “x” behavior. They do get a referral to a trainer when they adopt, but I’m sure most never follow through. We understand that, but I am sure most of the public does not.

I think the key is communicating and listening, between the shelter and the potential adopter. Both sides have to communicate their REAL needs and observations, which can be difficult when you want to get dogs OUT of there. They do do continuing ed at my daughter’s place - she just went up for an intensive 2 day seminar in behavioral modification in play groups, but there is only so much you can learn/do/control in a very fast-paced and stressful environment.[/QUOTE]

Our dog club has vouchers that go with every dog adopted at the shelter for a free set of puppy/beginner lessons.
We have several such lessons during the week on evenings and one Saturday morning.

Hardly anyone ever uses the voucher, sad to say.
When people have been asked, they say they don’t have time for that one hour a week for some weeks.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I didn’t read all the replies, but a new dog with me (puppy, adult, whatever) lives on a long-line (first with me holding, then trailing) until I am 100% confident we are solid off-leash.

My pup was on a leash and then a long-line for longer than I want to admit. Even in the house. I want to be 100% sure the dog will listen regardless of the distraction, drop everything and come when called. I live by a highway and also I have horses and chickens running around.

I realize your dog attacked unprovoked, but I was thinking a long line or initial interactions with horses on leash would have either avoided it in the first place, or clued you into some weird body language that was maybe missed (I don’t know–I’m definitely not saying it was your fault, it sounds totally unprovoked).

Just a suggestion. Good luck with the next pup or adult.

So I went back and saw the dog was on leash. I’m not erasing, because I still think it’s good advice, lol. I’m trying to figure out how the dog jumped up and got the horse on lead–that must of been crazy.

[beowulf]

wrong dog for the situation, i think… however, going off of what OP wrote, it seems like this was an escalating situation in which the dog gave multiple warning shots before he attacked the horse - i think maybe if the situation had of been handled differently the attack escalation would not have happened. unless i missed it, what correctional measures were taken each time the dog growled, snarled, and then attacked? at this point the dog probably does not know attacking livestock is taboo and if he is not set up for success he will obviously fail any task you devise for him.

no stock dogs are not meant to jump up and attack livestock and that really isn’t conducive to herding…

if he fits every other aspect of your life i might consider a more structured, appropriate approach, supervised by someone with dog training experience. i’ve had a few feral dogs picked up off the side of the road that “offered” similar behaviors, all have acclimated to a horse/livestock lifestyle with the appropriate training… two are in new homes (i fostered) with no problems.

[vacation1]

[QUOTE=Countrywood;8457868]
Multiple dogs have killed people after being adopted from shelter/rescue this year? Really? That would have been all over the news if it were true. There was that one tragic case reported. Dogs killing people is extremely rare and when it does happen can be a family pet owned since a puppy .[/QUOTE]

It’s not that rare. It happened over 30 times last year and it’s happened twice in 2016 already. And 3 of those times in 2015, it was an animal which had passed through the hands of a facility which is supposed to screen for aggression and err on the side of public safety. Instead, they rehomed an animal that went on to kill a human being. Fatal attacks on humans by dogs used to be very rare. That began to change when the pit bull advocacy movement and the no-kill movement collided during the 2000s, when it became a moral and then financial imperative for shelters to achieve a 100% live-release rate.

2015
Eugene Smith adopted a pit bull from an unnamed shelter in Maryland in the spring of 2014. 7-8 months later, it mauls him to death under the Christmas tree on January 7, 2015.
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/2015/01/08/frederick-county-md-dog-attack-victim-eugene-smittie-smith-loved-animals/21465053/

Joshua Strother is mauled to death by a pit bull his neighbors had adopted 3 weeks earlier from the Asheville Humane Society during a special pro-pit bull promotional drive.
http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20150709/ARTICLES/150709880

Anthony Riggs adopted a Rottweiler from the local county shelter on November 12, 2015. The dog killed him that same day.
http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/local/2015/11/15/man-killed-dog-loved-animals/75840858/

An extensive list of news stories dealing with recently adopted dogs who showed extreme aggression once in their new homes – dogs who attacked and mauled humans, dogs, and other animals – can be found at http://safetybeforebulldogs.blogspot.com/2014/05/list-of-pit-bulls-recently-adopted-from.html

[AddieMarie]

So. Do you HAVE to take him to the barn?
My doggy love of my life, my yellow lab, barks and snarls at horses. Not a dog for horses.

My mare? Has pounced at dogs, willing to murder them. Not a good combo.

If he has aggression issues, he has them, and nothing you do will help.

[Calamber]

The dog has been returned for about a month now.

[Countrywood]

It’s not that rare. It happened over 30 times last year and it’s happened twice in 2016 already. And 3 of those times in 2015, it was an animal which had passed through the hands of a facility which is supposed to

[B]3 times in a year IS rare. Compare 3 incidents to the thousands of dogs a year killed in USA by human neglect and cruelty; we are the far more dangerous species. (and that does not include hundreds of thousands of dogs killed by euthanasia most of which are result of over breeding and discarding. Dogs have a far better track record then we do.

[RacetrackReject]

[QUOTE=Countrywood;8490515]
It’s not that rare. It happened over 30 times last year and it’s happened twice in 2016 already. And 3 of those times in 2015, it was an animal which had passed through the hands of a facility which is supposed to

[B]3 times in a year IS rare. Compare 3 incidents to the thousands of dogs a year killed in USA by human neglect and cruelty; we are the far more dangerous species. (and that does not include hundreds of thousands of dogs killed by euthanasia most of which are result of over breeding and discarding. Dogs have a far better track record then we do.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Twenty-two people a year are killed by cows. Heck, 2.18 people per year are killed by a vending machine…lol.

[Daisyrae]

You also have to keep in mind with “pitbull” statistics… many shelters do their best guess at what a breed would be. Pitbull is the easiest to fit 90% of the time, and is also a more popular breed. (I know this isn’t about pitbulls specifically, just feel like I need to stand up for the little buggers on occasion).

But I agree, deaths caused by dogs are much fewer than deaths caused by just about anything else, even if they are “on the rise.”

[Countrywood]

There is some risk to every human activity. The risk of death from owning a dog is minuscule.

If a person wants to avoid that minuscule risk don’t get a dog…or buy a tiny dog. Of course the tiny dog might annoy you to death rather than bite you to death.

[Horsegal984]

Hahahahahahahah omg I’m dying. 2.18 people killed by vending machines. :lol: :lol: :lol: