One question on this, can you help me understand the marine calcium? Is this the main mode of lowering pH in stomach acid that makes Outlast so effective? If I were to provide the same calcium without Outlast would it really be safe to remove Outlast or could I simply cut back ensuring he continues to receive the current amount of calcium after switching to Gold? This may possibly be a dumb question but I am still wrapping my head around some of this.
I asked this question of Triple Crown when I did the switch. They said itâs so similar you donât need to do a traditional transition, but they recommended a short transition just because the flavor is different â from my horseâs perspective, I can tell you she thinks itâs not nearly as tasty.
It is the same mode of lowering ph. Yes that is the âactiveâ ingredient in Outlast. My horse does better on Gold than he did on regular Senior plus Outlast. YMMV
For reference my horse gets at least 6 lbs of gold Senior daily
Thank you! I know he had no issues before and pretty much eats any grain given to him so taste isnât going to be a problem here. I can definitely do a short transition with him but wasnât sure if I needed to do the longer 7-10 day transition typically recommended when changing grain.
They smell different enough Iâd mix while transitioning
RAISING pH, lowering acidity 
And yes, the marine-derived calcium is the main component
Without scrolling all the way back I donât remember how many servings of Outlast youâre feeding now. If just 2, then Iâd discontinue that if you feed at least 2 3-lb meals of TC Sr Gold. If youâre feeding more, then you could continue with the extra serving of Outlast
âRAISING pH, lowering acidity And yes, the marine-derived calcium is the main componentâ DOH, head desk moment here⊠Thanks for catching that one, I think I meant lowering acidity but typed pH oof.
Will definitely mix them when transitioning him over, easy enough to do so not a problem.
âWithout scrolling all the way back I donât remember how many servings of Outlast youâre feeding now. If just 2, then Iâd discontinue that if you feed at least 2 3-lb meals of TC Sr Gold. If youâre feeding more, then you could continue with the extra serving of Outlastâ
I am feeding two servings currently for his weight. So I will discontinue once we start the TC Sr. Gold. He does get a pretty decent amount of alfalfa now with the added hay flake daily. I havenât worked out the numbers just yet but if the Gold has more calcium then Outlast wouldnât be needed.
Thank you for explaining this to me. will definitely have to keep an eye on him and adjust things accordingly, I donât want him to get fat either. Since I do have control over everything but his hay right now that shouldnât be hard to adjust for. I am also not sure what his pasture condition really is with regards to weed ratio as we are pretty new here, that I donât really have as much control over.
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In theory could someone just add this to a diet or is it the intersection of this marine-derived calcium and other ingredients that makes Outlast so effective?
I suppose you can add that variety of calcium if you can find it. I donât know how much of it is in a serving of Outlast though.
I have not seen noticeable improvements with GutX but others swear by it, so YMMV.
My ulcer-prone horses do get outlast 2x/day and a handful fed before riding. I also have the tougher ones on a maintenance dose of omeprazole daily, at least during periods of stress and/or winter. (I use Abler due to costs, but it has made a measurable difference in many of my horses over the years.)
My horses all get TC Sr Gold, and while itâs the best Iâve found for putting weight on and maintaining Seniors, itâs not enough IMO to discontinue other approaches (e.g. outlast, cool calories, etc)
I do think your hay is the biggest problem. A: coastal bermuda isnât necessarily the best hay type out there for hard keepers, and the increased colic risk is something Iâm not willing to deal with in any case. and B: your horse doesnât actually like the coastal enough to eat sufficient quantities to help him maintain/gain weight.
For both of those reasons, Iâd look into different hay options. My horses have free choice O/A. I use large squares in the pastures so they can eat as much as they want, and I donât have to lug/throw hay out multiple times a day. In stalls they get small flakes of the same, and the harder keepers/ulcery ones get a few additional flakes of straight alfalfa.
I also seed pastures with winter rye, so in addition to free choice hay, they get to nibble on at least some fresh green stuff all winter except for the coldest part of Jan/Feb.
Finally, make sure your horse isnât shivering off his calories. A run-in or tree stand might not be enough shelter for him to stay warm enough, and so with my thinner or ulcer-prone horses, Iâm especially diligent about blanketing.
Good luck with your guy. Hopefully with Spring coming, that will help.
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Thank you!
I am keeping the Outlast and likely will once I switch to Gold. I have added in a flake of alfalfa daily and he has been getting timothy too. I am working to source T/O for next year and am also doing research into seeding the pasture with cool season grasses. I wonât use straight rye as the horse we plan to pasture him with is PPID and we need to be mindful of the sugar content. I will also try to get some alfalfa hay to add in with that next year too. Large bales arenât an option for me as the barn doesnât have the equipment or shelter to put them out. I do plan to make a couple of trough pasture feeders so we can really stock the small bales but make them last all day/night or at least most of it.
The grass is coming in finally!! He has also already started adding a little weight so I am hopeful he will be where I want him soon enough. Once grass is really growing I will drop the hay but keep him on pellets unless he porks up too much. My goal for next year is to avoid needing the cool calories altogether as he did not need them last winter. He did have access to a rye pasture and I think that made the difference. He was also given coastal at that barn but kept weight up even while in light work.
The one benefit to the current barn is I do have some freedom to experiment with things as long as I foot the bill. I am going to try to overseed one of the pastures that he and the PPID horse can share and see how it goes. That owner is also onboard with my plan so we will work together to try this. She is planning on feeding T/O hay and likely will also feed alfalfa as her guy isnât thrilled with coastal either.
Thank you for the advice and information!
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Is there Alesia burmuda hay available ? Itâs a softer hay than coastal , I put out round rolls ( horse hay kept covered ) free choice . Even better if you have a cover to put it under with only one or two horses it would last maybe a month . I put out one during winter with 5pr 6 horses and it last maybe 7 days . Then Iâd give a flake of alfalfa once or twice a day
Heard good things from someone just today in fact about outlast for ulcers .
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I honestly am not sure about the Alesia bermuda, I have not heard of this variety but it may be possible to source locally. We canât do round bales on our farm because we donât have the ability to put them out. I definitely am not willing to buy the equipment either lol.
My vets, riding instructor and pretty much every other person I have talked to swears by Outlast. He has been fine on it since his treatment ended last year but I wasnât sure if ulcers may have resurfaced and caused the weight loss. Based on the fact that he has already packed on some noticeable weight in two weeks and has no ulcer symptoms I am going on a limb and say it was lack of quality hay. I also wasnât as diligent as I should have been with his blanket this winter and have learned my lesson for next year. Blanketing was a service included before but now it is on me and I got slack (smacking myself many times over for this).
Thanks everyone for your input and I still welcome more if appropriate. I am working on a solid plan for hay next year and hoping to do some pasture improvement this summer/fall. Fingers crossed the hay cops are good and we get enough rain to grow nice pastures.
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I also thought I couldnât do round bales due to lack of equipment but I got creative when I found really good quality hay in round bales at a very low price. I pick up a bale in a truck every couple of weeks and am able to roll it off the back of the truck myself. Itâs not very hard if you have a truck and the option of regular loading. I did have to invest in a good hay net and hay ring but overall the savings are significant and I would have had a really hard time finding such high quality hay in squares.
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Itâs Alicia Bermuda btw in case you do try to source some it may be helpful to know the correct name.
I get Alicia myself. My horses eat it but they donât chow down on it if they have other options. I feed it in conjunction with a T/O mix. My horses eat the T/O first and then snack at the Alicia Bermuda. I find itâs very handy as itâs more affordable and letâs me ensure horses never run out of hay without breaking the bank or their waistlines.
Here is a random university article describing some of the different Bermuda varieties.
https://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=B911&title=Bermudagrass%20in%20Georgia
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Thank you for the ideas, we unfortunately donât have a truck BUT do have access to small âlandscapeâ trailer that can be towed by our 4Runner, so this may work. The only part I am unsure if is the regular pick up, I have never had to shop for my own hay so will have to ask around locally and see. This is definitely something I will keep in mind as I am working through my plans for next winter.
Thank you for the clarification, I would have had a hard time looking for the other lol.
In new developments at the barn I may be sourcing hay completely for next winter (very long story but short version is the BO is doing badly health wise and I am trying to keep it going along with the other boarder). I am just now starting to think about my Bermuda source so will look into the varieties on the list and see what I can get. I know there are better options out there but I am not independently wealthy and am expecting my first child currently so the budget is a bit tight. Bermuda will have to suffice for at least part of their diet with some added oomph from a T/O or T/O/A mix. We are also looking at what we can do to reseed one of the pastures, it wonât be there for next winter but may allow us to rotate more and provide more grass the following year. Plans are very much in the early phases but we are trying to see what we can do to maximize what we have and not break the bank.
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Pretty much any pickup, even a 1/2 ton, could have even a 2000lb round bale plopped in the bed, though a regular length (6â) bed could only hold 1. I can put 2, 1000lb (ish) rounds in my long bed (8â) 3/4ton truck with the tailgate down (and strapped in, obviously LOL) Since very few rounds are that heavy, a regular pickup should be fine. And then you could also potentially have 1 (or 2) put in the landscape trailer depending on the payload capacity of that, and its length. It sounds like that one could only take 1 smaller (500lb-ish) bale.
congratulations!!! 
Congratulations on the baby!
In my area, Bermuda varieties are all about the same price wise. Itâs just a matter of finding them. Which is the hard part. Everyone calls everything coastal except the farmers that know dang well what varieties they paid money to have sprigged to their fields.
I dunno how far south you are, but if itâs available in your area perennial peanut hay is a direct and equal substitution for alfalfa hay and is much cheaper than trucked in alfalfa. My horses like it just as well if not better than alfalfa. Maybe something to consider when trying to get the most bang for your buck in the hay budget.
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Thank you for explanation. I think we could fit maybe 2 round bales in the trailer, will have to measure the actual dimensions but we easily fit 15 squares this winter I believe 5 fit on the bottom row. What I meant by regular pick up was more having a consistent supply of hay to pick up within reasonable driving distance. I do think if that is our best option we can figure out a way to make it work though. It may also be worth looking into getting the tractor implement to move the bales if we do go that route (obviously the long term future of the barn will weigh heavily on this decision). So many factors in all of this right now but the upside is Bermuda is just barely starting to grow so we do have a few months to work that out. We will need to sort out the T/O, T/O/A situation first and given the quantity we plan to feed we are only looking at small squares of that.
Thanks for the congratulations! I am beyond excited to welcome her into this world (due in May so she will be here very soon 
)
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Thank you!!
Yeah I pretty much have only ever seen coastal listed but like you said there are likely some that know exactly what was planted. I will look around and see.
I had never thought to feed peanut hay to horses! I am in Raleigh NC, but may be able to get ahold of peanut hay. I will look into that, I am all for an equal but cheaper option and I know the horses will appreciate the better hay too. Anything I can do to save some money without sacrificing quality is worth looking into for sure!
