Outside rein help?

[silver609]

I’m a returning adult rider about 6 months in, loving every minute of being back in the saddle. I adore my trainer and am so proud of my progress with her I find myself feeling a bit stuck understanding my outside rein and thought maybe someone has an analogy or explanation that might help me fully grasp this concept .

I am getting better at riding inside leg to outside rein but my trainer tells me I need to be more dynamic with my outside rein. I think of my outside rein as defining the direction or shape I am traveling- directing the energy generated with the inside leg. So if the horse is traveling on the pattern and with good rhythm, what am I asking by being more dynamic? Thanks everyone- just can’t learn fast enough!

[Scribbler]

@silver609

I’m a returning adult rider about 6 months in, loving every minute of being back in the saddle. I adore my trainer and am so proud of my progress with her I find myself feeling a bit stuck understanding my outside rein and thought maybe someone has an analogy or explanation that might help me fully grasp this concept .

I am getting better at riding inside leg to outside rein but my trainer tells me I need to be more dynamic with my outside rein. I think of my outside rein as defining the direction or shape I am traveling- directing the energy generated with the inside leg. So if the horse is traveling on the pattern and with good rhythm, what am I asking by being more dynamic? Thanks everyone- just can’t learn fast enough!

Ask your trainer what they mean.

[outerbanks77]

I’m not sure what your trainer means, but a step forward in understanding for me as to think more about riding the inside hind leg towards the outside corner of the mouth; essentially getting the horse to step through in shoulder-fore to reduce that distance. This has me half halting more on the outside rein, but also giving as needed to make space for the bend.

[merrygoround]

In riding inside leg to outside rein, you can prove to yourself that you are doing so by riding a 20 m or smaller circle, and giving the inside rein. If the circle continues as before, no change in flexion or bend, you can be assured that it is happening.

How you can be "more dynamic’ with the outside rein, I too am unsure. Unless your horse is over flexing to the inside.

[JB]

Are you bracing your outside arm? Are you not moving with the horse at the walk and canter? Those are the only things I can think of that would require more movement.

Usually people (of whom I’m one!) don’t provide enough structure - TOO dynamic - and the horse doesn’t trust the rein

[Nous]

The purpose of the outside rein:

1. Frames the outside shoulder.
2. Assists in scoping the degree of bend created by the inside rein.
3. Gives the degree of turn and helps prevent the outside leg from falling out.
4. Regulates the flexion in the haunches.
5. Elevates the head and neck.

In relation to the above not dynamic enough may mean:
You are over bending the neck to the inside (1,2)
You are allowing the shoulder to fall out (1,2)
You are allowing the haunches to fall out (3), think of the concept of being straight on the circle.
You are not giving sufficient half halts to allow the horse to collect to the degree required by the exercise (4,5). This doesn’t mean next stop piaffe , it means that the horse has sufficient connection & impulsion to maintain itself in the required movement.

[Mondo]

Well said, Nous.

[merrygoround]

The outside shoulder is framed by the outside knee and thigh.

The outside hind leg is also controlled by the rider’s outside lower leg.

The head and neck are elevated by the degree of engagement
of both hind legs.

What flexion in the haunches? Are you speaking of engagement? That comes from the rider’s seat and legs to a degree appropriate to the horse’s physical development.

The outside rein does indeed restrict over flexion of the head and neck.

Too much attention to the rein, and not the rider’s body.

How else would you explain the OJ rider who successfully finished the course after a bridle malfunction, or those who give brieless demonstrations , or the troop of young rider on gray who show without bridles?

[Mondo]

@merrygoround

Too much attention to the rein, and not the rider’s body.

I agree - but I think Nous was just answering the OP’s question, which was about outside rein. Obviously, you can’t separate the various functions as the reins, the seat, and legs all have their jobs to do.

[merrygoround]

No bridle, no problem: Jeremy Reynolds won the 100-mile Western States Trail Ride, popularly known as the Tevis Cup, using just a neck rope on his mare Treasured Moments. “I’d like to say that I’m that good of a horseman, but really, I just have that good of a horse, and I’ve been able to listen to her and see what she likes,” said Reynolds.

And then there’s the American Plains Indian, hunting buffalo on horseback needed two hands for his bow. His life depended on reinless riding.

[Nous]

Yes of course, but perhaps you can explain to us your understanding of how the horse is brought to the seat for dressage?

[JB]

Nobody is saying anyone HAS to use reins for everything or even anything. That’s not helping the OP decipher what her trainer means, and not helping in the context of Dressage where, afaik, you don’t have an option for bridleless of any sort.

[Mondo]

@JB

Dressage where, afaik, you don’t have an option for bridleless of any sort.

You are correct.

[pluvinel]

@merrygoround

I just have that good of a horse, and I’ve been able to listen to her and see what she likes,” said Reynolds.

And then there’s the American Plains Indian, hunting buffalo on horseback needed two hands for his bow. His life depended on reinless riding.

I think his point is that the rider needs to listen to the horse. If a horse can feel a fly, they can feel rein and seat aids. It is the responsibility of the rider to develop that communication

[merrygoround]

As with anything else, you start from scratch, and building block by building block you progress. There have been books written on the subject, at the SRS they spend a year on the longe, on educated horses until they figure out how t use themselves to get the correct response.

Some physically talented riders understate innately, how to ride. The rest of us go through a learning process fast or slow depending.

Sadly, there are no secrete ways to push a button Good instruction helps enormously but is not always easy to find.

[merrygoround]

Yes,yes and yes, particularly the body aids.

Gone away!

[silver609]

Thank you so much! This give me a lot to think about!

[pluvinel]

@silver609

Thank you so much! This give me a lot to think about!

Thinking is ok…but…I will share what my best instructors have told me. “Quit thinking and start riding.” What they mean is that if you think too much it clutters the mind with noise so you cannot feel the horse under you.

What @Nous says is technically correct, this is Mea-Culpa from someone who is guilty of overthinking her riding. It was a hot stallion who finally imparted the insight that I had to FEEL if I wanted to survive. If I did too much thinking, I usually found myself bucked off. That horse taught me a lot. It was instant feedback to sit on his back.

I suggest you play around with the different rein effects and see how the horse reacts. You will then develop FEEL for how the horse reacts to the different rein effects.

I am sorry if one cannot provide a prescription for what to do. It is a very Zen concept that words get in the way of an artistic concept. You can give general guidance, but a student has to find their own way.

I suggest reading Eugen Herrigel’s book, “Zen in The Art of Archery.” In it he discusses a similar frustration on mastering the bow similar to what you express with riding.

There followed weeks and months of fruitless practice…Perhaps it was chance, perhaps it was deliberately arranged by the Master, that we one day found ourselves together over a cup of tea. I seized on this opportunity for a discussion and poured my heart out.

-snip-

You have described only too well " , replied the Master, where the difficulty lies. Do you know why you cannot wait for the shot and why you get out of breath before it has come?

The right shot at the right moment does not come because you do not let go of yourself. You do not wait for fulfilment, but brace yourself for failure. So long as that is so, you have no choice but to call forth some thing yourself that ought to happen independently of you, and so long as you call it forth your hand will not open in the right way.

The more obstinately you try to learn how to shoot the arrow for the sake of hitting the goal, the less you will succeed in the one and the further the other will recede. What stands in your way is that you have a much too wilful will. You think that what you do not do yourself does not happen.

What I took this to mean is that you need to communicate with the horse and let the horse respond and move under you…eg., you have to let go of the “willful will” and listen/feel the horse.

[Mondo]

@pluvinel

What they mean is that if you think too much it clutters the mind with noise so you cannot feel the horse under you.

This ^^ 100%! My students who struggle the most are those who overthink it. They have taught me, along with my teachers, that feeling is more important than dissecting it. Yet, those who overthink are well suited for dressage, because they are the ones who are determined to get it right. I often say, if you can feel it, you can fix it.

[pluvinel]

@Mondo

My students who struggle the most are those who overthink it.

BTDT…

For some reason…probably because I had read in some book that this was something important a rider should know…I wanted to know when each hind leg was reaching forward at the walk.

So I asked my instructor to watch and guide me. EVERY SINGLE TIME, 100% of the time, I was 180 degrees out of whack. Eg., when I said RH was forward, it was the LH. I totally frustrated her.

Figuring I was a lost cause, she called in her daughter, (an excellent rider in her own right) to watch. The daughter’s guidance was, “When do you FEEL like you would give an aid? Say that out loud.” I nailed it! It was now getting the movement correctly 100% of the time.

It was when I turned off the analytical brain and turned on the “artistic brain” I was able to feel the horse under me. I have never forgotten this.

But each person arrives at this insight in their own good time. The awakening has to happen at each individual’s personal pace. The light bulb turns on slowly. The teacher can help point the student to the door, but the student has to walk thru the door.

Dressage riders are typically “A-type” personalities. Usually they are very goal oriented, especially people who want to compete and win. It is very had to turn off that brain and to be “purposeless”… on purpose.