Ovary Sparing Spay--OSS

[keysfins]

[QUOTE=animaldoc;8713371]
Because the ovaries are still there producing hormones, the dogs are at higher risk for stump pyometra, even when done “correctly.” Additionally, bleeding can come from the vaginal vault (not removed) as well the uterus (removed) so they can still bleed during heats (not to mention attracting every intact male in a 5mi radius, and being susceptible to STDs if they escape and get bred). So no benefit (and lots of downsides) over OHE…[/QUOTE]

@animaldoc;8713376

Forgot to say, no proven benefit to taking everything else and leaving ovaries in dogs, so I would either avoid the anesthesia add leave her intact (risking an emergency surgery or mammary cancer) or do a traditional OHE.

I am aware of the effect on the heats as far as the bleeding. Again, that is a non-issue in our case. As is the bit about attracting males, risk of STDs if this dog were to “escape” and get bred. We have managed to reach 5.5 years with this bitch, without an “escape”, an “oops litter” or any STDs. (Actually, that goes for MANY years, over 20, that I’ve had females.)

That actually sounds a bit like a reach, almost a scare tactic to me, perhaps appropriate to discuss with a more typical pet dog family, which may be your purpose in posting that info here.

But our situation is more like that of HoundHill-- deciding between maintaining a female intact, or spaying but retaining the ovaries. OSS may be beneficial in specific cases, considering valid, real concerns, for certain owner/management situations. OSS is not ideal or appropriate for every pet owner, certainly.

Any variation from “standard procedure” can be difficult to consider or accept as a new norm or option. Only now are some vets considering a change from pediatric spay and neuter, with larger breed dogs in particular, for valid reasons.

I appreciate your input, and from your username, might guess that you are a vet. I am not, but that does not mean that my quest for further information and actual experiences with OSS is not valid.

[DrBeckett]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the weird squiggly things on the testicles are the vas deferens, which are on every testicle. Not a problem, but rather, anatomy.

[keysfins]

[QUOTE=DrBeckett;8713621]
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the weird squiggly things on the testicles are the vas deferens, which are on every testicle. Not a problem, but rather, anatomy.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the same.

[Marshfield]

Have you been to this website?

https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/

[keysfins]

[QUOTE=Marshfield;8713751]
Have you been to this website?

https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/[/QUOTE]

Yes, I have, and thank you for posting that link. It may be a resource for others looking for a vet that performs alternative procedures.

ETA: this page in particular has the relevant info:

https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/projects/ovary-sparing-spray/

[keysfins]

For those interested, an article in layman’s terms by Dr. Karen Becker, interviewing Dr. Michelle Kutzler, a diplomate of the American College of Theriogenologists:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/23/modified-spay-procedure.aspx

[keysfins]

For those interested, an article on OSS in layman’s terms:

http://ivcjournal.com/the-pros-of-partial-spay/

[Sabino]

[QUOTE=keysfins;8713179]
Letting them remain with an OSS may offer some benefit to attain old age, while removing the possibility of reproduction.[/QUOTE]

All of my dogs have been females, spayed around 2 years of age (waiting to get xrays and other testing done). My Rott lived to 15, my first Chesapeake lived to 14, and one of my current Chessies just turned 13, other one is 4.

[keysfins]

[QUOTE=Sabino;8714034]
All of my dogs have been females, spayed around 2 years of age (waiting to get xrays and other testing done). My Rott lived to 15, my first Chesapeake lived to 14, and one of my current Chessies just turned 13, other one is 4.[/QUOTE]

Your Rottie reached exceptional longevity, congratulations!

[Hulk]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8713196]
Are you kidding?

I’m with csaper…it’s kind of ridiculous to suggest that all dogs everywhere be spayed/neutered early because one dog once had a vasectomy and developed some weird problem with his nuts.[/QUOTE]

Are you reading for comprehension? The last sentence states For me personally I would get the full spay/ neuter for all my pets. Key words in that sentence are … ME PERSONALLY and MY PETS. So yes the response was combative to say the least. No where in the post did the poster say not to do this with your own, or that all dogs everywhere should be spayed and neutered.

[Megaladon]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8713196]
Are you kidding?

I’m with csaper…it’s kind of ridiculous to suggest that all dogs everywhere be spayed/neutered early because one dog once had a vasectomy and developed some weird problem with his nuts.[/QUOTE]

This is actually getting kinda comical. Nowhere did I say "early spay/neuter " But whatever, keep reading words and sentences that aren’t there. Sorry OP, I didn’t realize my sharing of my experience would send a couple posters into convulsions and subsequent derailment. Thanks Hulk for having my back.

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=Megaladon;8714305]
This is actually getting kinda comical. Nowhere did I say "early spay/neuter " But whatever, keep reading words and sentences that aren’t there. Sorry OP, I didn’t realize my sharing of my experience would send a couple posters into convulsions and subsequent derailment. Thanks Hulk for having my back.[/QUOTE]

You’re getting really worked up about this. No one is having convulsions but you

I am still perplexed why a single dog who had a vasectomy and had a weird problem with his nuts has any bearing what so ever on any decision at any time to spay a bitch. Or why a single instance of anything would really play so large in your decision to even neuter a dog.

But whatever, please proceed.

[keysfins]

Thank you for the efforts to remain on topic.

[animaldoc]

[QUOTE=keysfins;8713493]
But our situation is more like that of HoundHill-- deciding between maintaining a female intact, or spaying but retaining the ovaries. [/QUOTE]
But that’s what I’m saying - since there is no proven benefit to removing the uterus etc and leaving the ovaries (other than prevention of pregnancy), why not a tubal? Especially in Houndhill’s line where she says that the risk of pyometra seems to be low.

[keysfins]

Maybe the links have not been clear, or have not been read. Or have been read, but have been dismissed.

Nutshell: want the ovaries, don’t want the uterus/risk of pyometra, no plans to breed.

There DOES seem to be a benefit to leaving the ovaries as hormone-producing parts of the endocrine system. Particularly in my breed, with known, high risks of osteosarcoma, hemangiosarcoma and lymphoma. I have dealt with each of these cancers in my personal dogs, and want to maximize the health and longevity, to “healthy old age”, of my current bitch. There is an association between ovarian exposure and longevity, while avoiding the “big three” cancers in Rottweilers. The REASON for the protective nature of keeping the ovaries is, as yet, unclear. (Other research papers indicate that LH may be a factor, but I chose to keep the topic here on a more basic level.)

That’s my whole point of investigating an Ovary Sparing Spay.

It is fine if you disagree with OSS, as I am not looking for permission, nor am I trying to convince anyone else to pursue OSS as an option for their female dog. In my OP, I am asking for input from anyone who HAS chosen OSS for their dog, or is considering it.

It is clear that you have not chosen this alternative, unless you’re holding out on me and have experience with bitches who have had the OSS procedure. If you have, please let me know what the outcome has been in those bitches, and what your role in animal care is to have experience with the outcomes.

If you have not, feel free to start another thread discussing traditional spay procedures, and the risks and benefits of that option.

Cheers!

[Simkie]

[QUOTE=animaldoc;8714570]
But that’s what I’m saying - since there is no proven benefit to removing the uterus etc and leaving the ovaries (other than prevention of pregnancy), why not a tubal? Especially in Houndhill’s line where she says that the risk of pyometra seems to be low.[/QUOTE]

What are the risks of doing a OOS versus a tubal? If the concern is not to prevent pregnancy but to lower the risk of a pyo, what would you recommend?

I have read that a OOS requires a larger incision, so that is certainly a concern–a tubal could be done via scope, allowing for a considerably easier recovery. But if managing pregnancy risk is not the issue, should the question be OOS vs not spaying at all?

Is there an actual figure for the risk of pyo in the general population?

Are there ways to reduce the risk other than spaying, either traditionally or OOS?

[Marshfield]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8714731]
What are the risks of doing a OOS versus a tubal? If the concern is not to prevent pregnancy but to lower the risk of a pyo, what would you recommend?

I have read that a OOS requires a larger incision, so that is certainly a concern–a tubal could be done via scope, allowing for a considerably easier recovery. But if managing pregnancy risk is not the issue, should the question be OOS vs not spaying at all?

Is there an actual figure for the risk of pyo in the general population?

Are there ways to reduce the risk other than spaying, either traditionally or OOS?[/QUOTE]

With a tubal ligation, pyometra is still a possibility. Surgical incisions heal side to side, not end to end. So, while OSS is going to result in a longer incision, you shouldn’t have substantially increased healing time. Lifetime risk of pyometra is 15-24%

[keysfins]

[QUOTE=Marshfield;8714764]
With a tubal ligation, pyometra is still a possibility. Surgical incisions heal side to side, not end to end. So, while OSS is going to result in a longer incision, you shouldn’t have substantially increased healing time. Lifetime risk of pyometra is 15-24%[/QUOTE]

Thank you, that is helpful to know.

[Ghazzu]

@keysfins;8714721

There DOES seem to be a benefit to leaving the ovaries as hormone-producing parts of the endocrine system… (Other research papers indicate that LH may be a factor, but I chose to keep the topic here on a more basic level.)

LH is produced by the anterior pituitary, not the ovary.

[Megaladon]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8714450]
You’re getting really worked up about this. No one is having convulsions but you

I am still perplexed why a single dog who had a vasectomy and had a weird problem with his nuts has any bearing what so ever on any decision at any time to spay a bitch. Or why a single instance of anything would really play so large in your decision to even neuter a dog.

But whatever, please proceed.[/QUOTE]

My gathering of the OP was prevention of cancer. The dog with the vasectomy is looking at cancer. I’m not sure why my opinion offends you and the other poster so much?

Keysfins, I wish you all the luck with your girl.