Overhauling my 17yo's feed

[Abbie.S]

Calling @JB and others who have experience tinkering with feed programs for fussy horses.

I’ve got a 17yo QH gelding who is not really a typical QH - more on the “hard keeper” side, condition fluctuates easily, built long and lean and has proven to be quite sensitive in specific ways to changes in management. He’s a stoic sort of guy but as he’s entering his late teens I’m noticing I need to change his management to keep him going solid. He’s also very suspicious of changes in his feed, which makes this a lot harder.

I need to try and do the following:

• Wean him off extruded/processed feeds
• Increase his protein significantly
• Increase his fats moderately

He gets free-choice first cut during the day, lives out 24/7 in a small herd and gets put into a catch pen for a few hours in the morning to enjoy a few flakes of 2nd cut. He used to live on 2nd exclusively and looked much better consistently, so I think that’s been part of the issue but I unfortunately can’t go back to that in his current set-up.

He’s currently getting (per day):

• 2qt Blue Seal Sentinel LS
• 1qt alfalfa pellets
• 1qt beet pulp
• 2oz Camelina oil
• 3,000 IU Vit E, 2mg Se (Elevate Vit E/Se powder, we are Se deficient in our area and he’s tested low for Vit E historically)

I would like to avoid highly processed feed products if at all possible. He’s demonstrated he’s more sensitive to inflammation as he’s gotten older so the more artificial junk I can cut out the better. His last bloodwork panel looked good so other than the Se and Vit E I’m not so worried about micro/macro nutrient deficiencies currently although realize I will need to consider that as I change things.

I’ve been looking at nude oats, soybean meal, copra meal, etc. He turned down the soybean meal hard, so that’s out. I’ve got a barn mate who is going to let me try some of her Coolstance Copra meal and see if he’ll eat that. I appreciate any other thoughts/ideas.

And here he is, last May. He’s a bit leaner than this right now and lost quite a bit of condition over the winter, hence the need to make some changes.

[JB]

@Abbie.S

Wean him off extruded/processed feeds

What’s the actual goal though?

@Abbie.S

He’s currently getting (per day):

• 2qt Blue Seal Sentinel LS
• 1qt alfalfa pellets
• 1qt beet pulp
• 2oz Camelina oil
• 3,000 IU Vit E, 2mg Se (Elevate Vit E/Se powder, we are Se deficient in our area and he’s tested low for Vit E historically)

Given how few calories that is, relatively speaking, and given that you’re under-feeding the LS, you could do forage pellets (like increase the alf pellets) and either use a ration balancer if you’re not opposed to that level of processing, or use a forage balancer.

Forage balancers are the likes of California Trace, Arizona Copper Complete, Lonestar Trace, High Point Grass, Uckele has a couple, etc. Some degree of nutrition (a few things in CT, more things in HPG), without calories

If you really want to get into the macro/micro nutrient balancing you’d need a forage analysis, but a ration balancer, or a reasonable choice of forage balancer would get you close.

[Abbie.S]

Goal is to cut out as much of the additives and byproducts as I can. As I’ve learned more about nutrition I’ve come to have a similar opinion about horse feed as I do about people feed - less processed is generally better, as much as you can manage, but with him in particular he’s a pretty sensitive horse when it comes to any inflammation and so the less processed I can keep his diet the better.

There is a local product call Vermont Blend that I believe is a forage balancer but it’s a granule which I have a feeling my guy will be finicky about. I’ll have to look into the others.

[JB]

Processed human food is often amplifying the “bad”, and reducing the “good”. It concentrates sugars and starches, removes a lot of vitamins.

Beet pulp is a by-product, but very useful.
Wheat middlings are a byproduct, but increases the protein and decreases the starch compared to the whole wheat.

Alfalfa pellets are processed.

Processing oats doesn’t change their digestibility, but you need to process (crack, roll, steam) barley in order to get decent digestibility.

Vermont Blend has many of the the same nutritive additives that regular feeds and balancers have.

Processing doesn’t cause inflammation. But certain ingredients may contribute, such as soy, molasses, wheat, all depending on the horse.

So if THAT is your goal, then we have a better understanding of what you’re looking for

Most forage balancers are granular/powder. If you’re in VT, then the VB is most likely your best option. But you can look at California Trace and High Point Grass which have pelleted versions, the Uckele products (not sure if they are pellet or powder or both, U-Balance Foundation, Sporthorse Grass), and some others

[lenapesadie]

@Abbie.S

I need to try and do the following:

• Wean him off extruded/processed feeds
• Increase his protein significantly
• Increase his fats moderately

Can he have some alfalfa hay when in the catch pen? Add some flax seed to his “grain meal”? Replace the Blue Seal with a ration balancer or VMS? Carry the flax and VMS and other supplements in the alfalfa pellets / beet pulp?

[Abbie.S]

Yes - sorry, probably was not being clear - I’m really trying to eliminate additives, binders, fillers, etc…mildly processed doesn’t bother me depending on what we’re talking about. There’s a big difference between physical processed (rolling, cracking, crimping, etc) and high levels of processing which include the addition of various things to fix texture, palatability, physical form, etc.

I think I’m going to keep the beet pulp as it’s mostly fiber and look into chopped alfalfa versus pellets as the pellets are literally like little bullets and he has a hard time chewing them (old poll injury gets his TMJ flared on occasion). @lenapesadie, I would love to get him on some alfalfa hay but I can’t find any in our area: hay crop was crap in NE last year because of drought. I probably won’t be able to get baled alfalfa until this summer. I’ll have to see if I can find chopped, bagged alfalfa in the mean time.

[walktrot]

I’ve had my 26 y.o. gelding on Blue Seal LS for quite a few years. He maintains his normal weight on free choice Timothy plus the extra calories and nutritional balance from the LS. He doesn’t pack on extra pounds for the winter, and he only loses if he’s not getting enough hay. Which is why we left our prior barn. His supplements are natural Vit E, biotin, and a joint support.

What are the “additives, binders, fillers, etc” that you want to get rid of? Most ingredients in grain are the source of nutrients such as vitamins and minerals. Why would you “wean him off extruded/processed feeds?” Extruded, which is pressure cooking, is easier to chew and digest. All 5 Sentinel formulas, including LS and Senior, are extruded so you can pick the best nutritional profile. I’m not sure what you consider the “highly processed feed products” that you want to avoid. What is the “artificial junk?” They need something to glue everything together so they can push it through the machine when it’s cooked.

One thing to pay attention to is “fixed” formulas. The same ingredients are used in every batch which means it’s consistent from bag to bag. LS has soybean meal, soybean oil and soybean hulls, not “soy beans.” Blue Seal lists the ingredients on the bag and on their website. Many companies, don’t post ingredients. If Blue Seal makes a change in the recipe they don’t produce and sell the new formula until the website is revised and new bags are ready to go.

When you attempt to create your own “product” for your horse it’s likely that the nutritional profile will not meet his needs. You won’t know that if you don’t have it analyzed. Same idea when you buy different products from different companies. It’s easy to overdo selenium which is low in this area. . I did that with the LS grain and his Vit E with Selenium. It tested at the top of the range so I switched to plain Vit E.

With horses, sometimes you have to process something so it is digestible or to improve the bioavailability of nutrients. Hay is “processed” because you cut it down, let it dry, and create bales. Beet pulp is processed because it’s the by-product of removing the sugar from sugar beets. How many different forms of alfalfa are there? It’s not grown around here so you don’t see bales, but you do see pellets, cubes, and chopped up in bags.

Inflammation is a signal that something is wrong in the body, such as an injury. If your horse is getting worse you need to figure out what’s going on and decide how to treat it.

[Heinz_57]

@Abbie.S

There is a local product call Vermont Blend that I believe is a forage balancer but it’s a granule which I have a feeling my guy will be finicky about. I’ll have to look into the others.

If you’re referring to the Vermont Blend from Custom Equine Nutrition, it’s a powder FYI. Smells quite nice. They will send samples, just start with a pinch if yours is suspicious. I have been feeding it for 2 years now (easy keeper though), very happy with the results. There is a Selenium added and no Se version.

[candyappy]

I am not surprised he turned his nose up at soybean meal. It is great when added to an existing feed mix to up the protein ( especially a feed mix with some molasses) but it has pretty much zero palatability when fed with something like plain oats. Some horses will eat anything though…

Is there a direct link to increased inflammation and a feed like the Blue Seal you are feeding?