Paid deposit now seller is ignoring?

[rothmpp]

@Ambitious Kate;8159094

She wants the horse, gives a deposit to show her intent, the Agent accepts it, but does no one else but me think that the horse does not belong to her until she has paid the full price? In what world - horse or otherwise - is a purchase of a horse complete until the price has been paid? Have we not read thread after thread of sellers who insist that the first person to give them the money is the one who gets the horse? Pieces of the sales price don’t count, unless they agree that it will hold the horse. Sometimes, a deposit holds the horse from being sold to someone else, but not from continuing to be shown.

I’m merely guessing, but it seems from many of your posts defending what the agent did, that you have gotten burned by a similar situation in the role as the seller in the past.

While I would never continue to show a horse that I had a deposit on for fear of the horse getting hurt, I can understand the mentality that says until the deal is done, signed, and paid for, I will continue to show the horse to potential buyers with the caveat to those potential buyers that I do have a deposit so if that falls through, I will contact you.

The agreement as OP gave us did not preclude the horse continuing to be shown as a back-up arrangement. Definitely lesson learned by me from this thread - if I ever purchase another horse I will be very clear with the seller about whether a deposit will remove the horse from the market until PPE/final payment/pick up or if the horse will continue to be shown to other buyers. Particularly in the case of continuing to show the horse - IMO there should not be such a thing as a non-refundable deposit - the whole point of non-refundable in my non-legalese interpretation is that if you don’t complete the sale as the buyer - the seller is partially compensated for the potential lost sales during the time the horse was not available to be seen.

We always tell shoppers on this site “until the horse is in your barn, it is not a done deal”. Definitely true in this scenario.

The issue is, and continues to be with this particular deal gone south is the agent being unavailable, not only continuing to show the horse to potential buyers, but actually putting up a new ad, and KEEPING the money as “a lesson” to OP. Crap happens - but in no way does this sound like a situation in which OP should be horseless and out north of $1K.

[roseymare]

[QUOTE=Caol Ila;8158942]
When I moved to the UK, I put a deposit on a car within a few days of arriving but it took about ten days to open up a bank account and transfer enough cash into it to buy the car. The dealer didn’t care and he didn’t show the car to other people or re-advertise it. The whole point of the deposit was that it reserved the car for myself, and stopped the dealer from showing it to anyone else until I got the dosh together to pay the whole purchase price. Backup buyers? What? Don’t think I would buy a car, or a horse, from someone who took that view.

Did the OP not say that she wanted info on the vet history for her own edification? I’m not going to dig up the post, but she she wrote something along the lines of, “I like [the horse], so it is what it is,” which I read as meaning the medical history wasn’t going to make or break the sale. The agent refusing to answer her calls/texts/emails and relisting the horse for sale was what put her off.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Macimage;8159306]I stated that as a rule cars and houses tend to be unique or one of a kind, whereas, cars are usually mass produced. I was going to add of course there will be exceptions but that seemed obvious.

Yes, there are buyers looking for cars that want a certain set of features that are hard to find. But in general, it is much harder to find an exact duplicate of a horse or a house than a car.

Yes, but you were able to find the exact same car somewhere to be shipped to you. I understand you would be livid but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen without the buyer’s knowledge. New cars will often have 5-20 miles on them that is explained away by the dealership.[/QUOTE]

I don’t agree. I can make the argument that you can find a horse of similar training and bloodlines somewhere as well. Or even a house.
Just because it happens doesn’t mean its ethical.

I think there are just two trains of thought here. Those who take people at their word and those who do not.

[ynl063w]

I don’t know if this has been brought up but it seems that OP’s name and signature are not on the contract (though it’s more of a receipt than anything else) and the deposit was paid in cash. I could be wrong as I have not read the entire thread, but if that’s all true, how is she going to prove anything?

[Caol_Ila]

Why pay a deposit if the horse or car will continue to be shown to other people, and the agent eventually responds with, “I’m showing it to other people; I’ll get back to you next week” (which is what the OP said this guy did).

[keysfins]

With phones these days it is easy enough to photograph any “receipt” or agreement. Info within the photo would show date and time, at least.

Might not help now, but perhaps in a future situation. I just used mine to snap a photo of a horse insurance info form.

[RockinHorse]

[QUOTE=Caol Ila;8159527]
Why pay a deposit if the horse or car will continue to be shown to other people, and the agent eventually responds with, “I’m showing it to other people; I’ll get back to you next week” (which is what the OP said this guy did).[/QUOTE]

It can be shown but it can not be sold unless the person who paid the deposit backs out. It is not that unusual, especially for dealers and agents, to try to have back up buyers.

If you are worried about a horse getting hurt that way, make sure you have soundness and PPE contingencies in a contract.

I know a few people who have looked at horses with deposits pending. In at least one case I know of the person who looked at it when it had the deposit on it ended up purchasing the horse when the original buyer backed out. (I have no idea if the original buyer got their deposit back or not)

[keysfins]

[QUOTE=ynl063w;8159523]
I don’t know if this has been brought up but it seems that OP’s name and signature are not on the contract (though it’s more of a receipt than anything else) and the deposit was paid in cash. I could be wrong as I have not read the entire thread, but if that’s all true, how is she going to prove anything?[/QUOTE]

With phones these days it is easy enough to photograph any “receipt” or agreement. Info within the photo would show date and time, at least.

Might not help now, but perhaps in a future situation. I just used mine to snap a photo of a horse insurance info form.

[IPEsq]

I skimmed the last few pages except for the OP’s comments.

OP’s state’s requirements may vary, but under the UCC, sale of goods over $500 needs to be in a “writing.” Now, the writing may have some deficiencies (such as, in this case, buyer did not sign), BUT If the buyer makes a partial payment for the goods contracted for, the contract is enforceable as to the goods for which payment has been made.

Now, at this stage, you don’t want the goods, you just want your deposit money back. Provided your deposit amount falls within the small claims limits of the laws of the state in which horse is located, I would have filed suit yesterday. In the meantime, get someone to help you with the contract laws of that state.

[Ambitious_Kate]

[QUOTE=Caol Ila;8159527]
Why pay a deposit if the horse or car will continue to be shown to other people, and the agent eventually responds with, “I’m showing it to other people; I’ll get back to you next week” (which is what the OP said this guy did).[/QUOTE]

Well, in this case, the agent didn’t sell the horse out from under her. He said he showed it that Saturday, but he did get back to the OP after that, and ask her if she still wanted the horse, so it seems to me in the end, even though he wasn’t communicative with her, he did give her first option on the horse, and that she was the first in line to buy it if she wanted it. When he called and asked her if she wanted it. But, she did say no.

[IPEsq]

I disagree. When agent receives a call and buyer is requesting to pick horse up, the correct answer is not I’ll call you next week regardless of whether you have arranged for people to come try the horse in case deal falls through. I mean, how many times do you arrange to try a horse only to be later told sorry, someone got there first and horse is sold. Agent in this case put the other potential buyers before this one and I don’t think buyer is to blame for feeling like the deal has gone bust by the time agent finally calls back.

[Ambitious_Kate]

I see exactly what you are saying, IPEsq - I understand you putting it this way.As long as this deal constitutes “sold”. It may well, I was hesitant that it really was, but I am likely wrong on that account. I suspend my disbelief; its likely an honest deal gone sour.

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=keysfins;8159573]
With phones these days it is easy enough to photograph any “receipt” or agreement. Info within the photo would show date and time, at least.

Might not help now, but perhaps in a future situation. I just used mine to snap a photo of a horse insurance info form.[/QUOTE]

A photo won’t magically make the OP’s name appear on the receipt. My point is that the OP can’t prove she is the one associated with the receipt.

[RockinHorse]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;8159731]
I disagree. When agent receives a call and buyer is requesting to pick horse up, the correct answer is not I’ll call you next week regardless of whether you have arranged for people to come try the horse in case deal falls through. I mean, how many times do you arrange to try a horse only to be later told sorry, someone got there first and horse is sold. Agent in this case put the other potential buyers before this one and I don’t think buyer is to blame for feeling like the deal has gone bust by the time agent finally calls back.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=jennycash;8151608]I’m stuck on what to do. I drove a total of 12 hours to try a horse that was for sale. I really liked him so I put a deposit down. There was a quick contract written by agent. Basically just states I put ___ down and ____ left to pay when I pick horse up. The following day I had a few more questions as far as records (vet and show), previous info and what not. It has been a few days now and I haven’t heard a word. I have called, text, emailed. Not a single response from them.

It is shady that they are avoiding the history on the horse, but it is what it is, I like him. But the fact that I can’t even schedule to pay off and pick up this gelding is worrying me. For all I know they could have sold him to someone else and are keeping the large deposit.

At what point do I get someone else involved? And who?[/QUOTE]

But this is very confusing. We have no idea if, when she called, she even mentioned picking up the horse or just started asking for more information.

We don’t even know that she ever did ask about actually picking the horse up.

[IPEsq]

I think buyer’s possession of the receipt will go a long way. Remember, we are probably dealing with small claims court here for recovery of the deposit not a civil suit asking for specific performance (delivery of the horse). In most states, small claims parties have to go to mediation before going before the judge, and it’s often not all that hard to settle the thing in mediation. Finally, small claims judges tend to be more lenient towards the parties, who are usually there pro se. If agent shows up and wants to say something crazy like I wrote that receipt for X third party, agent is going to need someone to corroborate that like Mr/Ms X or other documentation.

Sure, this case is not going to be a slam dunk, but compared to a lot of horror stories, I have to say, when I first read this, I thought, well, at least something is in writing. As imperfect as that writing may be.

[IPEsq]

[QUOTE=RockinHorse;8159814]
But this is very confusing. We have no idea if, when she called, she even mentioned picking up the horse or just started asking for more information.

We don’t even know that she ever did ask about actually picking the horse up.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps I am incorrect. I was going off this statement of the OP’s “But the fact that I can’t even schedule to pay off and pick up this gelding is worrying me.”

AND, we have most likely a paper that consists of an enforceable contract to buy the horse that predates the calls, texts, etc. The answer of the agent should still not be “I’ll call you next week” because agent needs to deal with other potential buyers for the same horse. If it’s just oh I have this horse show yada yada then there’d be a stronger argument that the deal was still doing just fine.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=RockinHorse;8159814]
But this is very confusing. We have no idea if, when she called, she even mentioned picking up the horse or just started asking for more information.

We don’t even know that she ever did ask about actually picking the horse up.[/QUOTE]

I assumed she did based on her writing this in the second post you quoted:
‘But the fact that I can’t even schedule to pay off and pick up this gelding is worrying me.’

It would be interesting to know what message she left when she called the following day… did she leave a detailed message that included her questions, or not… included her wanting to arrange pick up or not… or was it a simple ‘this is ___ calling about __ gelding, please call me back’ general message.

Either way, a bird in the hand and all would make me call her back promptly were I the agent… unless I thought I could get more $$ form the new ‘trier’.

[Beck]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8159841]

Either way, a bird in the hand and all would make me call her back promptly were I the agent… unless I thought I could get more $$ form the new ‘trier’.[/QUOTE]

Unless. The way it ‘smells’ to me is that the agent did not get a buyer when showing the horse post-deposit, so he/she went back to the OP at that point.

Of course it is just as possible it went the opposite way: the agent did get a buyer lined up (perhaps even a better offer) and was clearing things up to make way for that deal. We can’t know and all this is just speculation until we hear more.

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8159841]

Either way, a bird in the hand and all would make me call her back promptly were I the agent… unless I thought I could get more $$ form the new ‘trier’.[/QUOTE]

Well, if you can afford to get a reputation that your word and signature aren’t worth the cheap ink…

[Beam_Me_Up]

[QUOTE=RockinHorse;8159814]
But this is very confusing. We have no idea if, when she called, she even mentioned picking up the horse or just started asking for more information.

We don’t even know that she ever did ask about actually picking the horse up.[/QUOTE]

I agree it’s confusing, but that alone doesn’t give the agent the right to imagine she’s backed out and then back out himself.
If he was worried, he should have asked “when are you picking up the horse?” “are you trying to add a contingency to this sale?” something like that. Her question is not grounds for him to break the contract, without a lot more communication.

[ESG]

Bumping for an update. Any news?