Yes, what happened? We never get the end of the story 
I think we didn’t hear a whole lot of the story, but hey. I could be wrong.
It’s possible that the OP stopped posting because the problem she has is a legal issue.
The way I’ve done business in the past (granted, always pleasure horses - no show or high dollar horses) is if someone says “I really like your horse. I’m pretty sure I’m going to buy him,” but does not want to create or sign a sale agreement or put down a deposit with a clearly written out agreement, the horse is free to be shown to other interested buyers.
If someone says, “I really like your horse” and either pays a deposit (refundable only if something happens to the horse between deposit and purchase; otherwise non-refundable if owner changes mind) the horse is not shown to other interested parties (or at least not ridden, etc.) If something was to happen to the horse when another party came to try it out, then I would be at fault because there was a sale agreement on the horse.
Sale agreements are always written with every detail spelled out: the date, the parties involved and their titles (owner, agent, buyer, etc.), the amount of money and in what form was paid towards what balance, when the balance is due and how, for what horse, and a statement about removing horse from the market/not showing to other prospective buyers until the date balance is due has passed. I also made note that the deposit was non-refundable should buyer change his/her mind, and clearly wrote out the instances in which the deposit would be refunded.
This was a lesson learned by a fellow who came to look at a trail gelding I had for sale. The guy told me he was coming with truck and trailer, but the trailer’s tire blew out so he came in a car. He paid a small deposit ($100 on a $1000 horse) and told me that he would be back in three days with a buddy of his to pick up the horse and pay the balance in cash. I made sure to write “non-refundable deposit” and the “due date” of three days. Three days came and went. In the meantime I contacted the potential buyer to solidify the pick up plans, and I never received a response. A week later he tells me that he decided to buy another horse and needs his deposit back. He threatened to take me to small claims (for $100) but then I reminded him of our signed agreement. Granted the agreement was written on a piece of notebook paper (written twice, signed by both parties,) but it was still a signed agreement.
The short version of the story I’ve learned over the years: there is never too much detail in an agreement or contract of any sort.
[QUOTE=Kwill;8166233]
Yes, what happened? We never get the end of the story :([/QUOTE]
I have a feeling the ending won’t be for a while! Spoke to lawyer who helped give me the next few steps and basic laws as far as livestock sales go. I tried getting in contact with them again but of course no answer. So a demand letter has been sent, waiting to see if I get a reply.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8166291]
I think we didn’t hear a whole lot of the story, but hey. I could be wrong.[/QUOTE]
You have said this multiple times. Not sure what the purpose is?? You are wrong so I don’t think you need to keep reposting.
Well, sorry, but I sort of don’t think we got the whole story either. Why did OP put down a deposit in cash and then come back asking for more information if there wasn’t anything on the original except[INDENT]
Here is the exact contract (without names/numbers) for those who have asked.
“I _____ sell one 5 year old gelding for the some of $____
$_____ Cash paid up on 5-13-15 for a bal due of $_____ at time of pick up.
I will supply brand inspection at pick up and papers will be sent after payment in full.”
*His signature
Agent
Also I wanted to ad, I never signed anything. Only he did.
[/INDENT]
[INDENT] Last edited by jennycash; May. 18, 2015 at 11:23 PM.
[/INDENT]
Granted I’d have wanted to get in touch for the purposes of picking up the horse and I’d have been getting upset if there was no call back for the purposes of making said arrangements - but I’d consider that I had no rights to vet records or anything else after signing such an agreement unless they wanted to be “nice” and you know how that goes.
I suppose that it could be said there was no contract without the signature of OP, but it’s not sensible to give up cash like that, look at this thread for Gosh sakes. Now she’s decided the horse isn’t worth it and she’s trying to figure out how to get the cash back. What a mess.
[QUOTE=ReSomething;8172082]
Also I wanted to ad, I never signed anything. Only he did.
[/INDENT]
[INDENT] Last edited by jennycash; May. 18, 2015 at 11:23 PM. [ /QUOTE]
I suppose that it could be said there was no contract without the signature of OP, but it’s not sensible to give up cash like that, look at this thread for Gosh sakes. Now she’s decided the horse isn’t worth it and she’s trying to figure out how to get the cash back. What a mess.[/QUOTE]
My take on it is that the OP opted to request her money back when the agent was not returning any of her calls and the owner told her to speak w/ the agent.
Is it so far fetched to think hmmm agent not calling me back about picking up horse, agent being evasive about vet and show record and wha’ts this the horse is re-advertised ! Can you say Red Flag? Rip off.
And while it may have been idiotic of the OP to leave a cash deposit but it wouldn’t have mattered if she left a check unless it was made out to the owners and not the agent - who’s to say the agent woudn’t have cashed the check?
Well, if OP’d called back asking only regarding picking the horse up (which should have meant more $$ coming) would the seller/agent/whatever he was been more likely to contact her promptly thus leading to a now satisfied horse owner, or did the whole thing unravel with the OP’s desire for additional information (that WAS NOT written into the nominal contract they had).
I can see an impatient seller jumping straight to “she won’t want the horse” if he can’t or won’t produce vet records. And can’t or won’t doesn’t always have to have a nefarious basis.
BB won’t let me write posts out worth a darn today, OR edit.
I can’t say that I’d be any happier in OP’s position though. I can’t recall if OP also tried to set up a pick up date and got ignored on that also but if so I’d be as upset and on here asking for the experiences of others.
I know for a lot of the higher end buyers on here it’s a trainer facilitated long drawn out process with commissions paid, wire transfers upon successful completions of PPE’s and insurance purchased and truthfully a lot of ways for prices to start out as one thing and end up as something totally different (and much higher). Sometimes it looks to me like they’ve misspelled hoRses hoUses it’s gotten so complicated. But this seems a little lacking in integrity on the part of the fella that took OP’s cash as well.
A simple, timely acknowledgement goes a long way.
.
[QUOTE=ReSomething;8172160]
BB won’t let me write posts out worth a darn today, OR edit.
I can’t say that I’d be any happier in OP’s position though. I can’t recall if OP also tried to set up a pick up date and got ignored on that also but if so I’d be as upset and on here asking for the experiences of others.
.[/QUOTE]
IIRC the pickup was part of the reason for the initial ignored/unreturned calls the day or so after she returned from seeing horse and leaving deposit.
For all we know, while not mentioned on ‘receipt’ for deposit, the PPE/Vet records/show records may have been talked about when OP was there to try horse… I dunno’ that we can assume these were ‘out of the blue’ requests, any more than we can assume they weren’t.
[QUOTE=ReSomething;8172082]
Well, sorry, but I sort of don’t think we got the whole story either. Why did OP put down a deposit in cash and then come back asking for more information if there wasn’t anything on the original except[INDENT]
[/INDENT]
Granted I’d have wanted to get in touch for the purposes of picking up the horse and I’d have been getting upset if there was no call back for the purposes of making said arrangements - but I’d consider that I had no rights to vet records or anything else after signing such an agreement unless they wanted to be “nice” and you know how that goes.
I suppose that it could be said there was no contract without the signature of OP, but it’s not sensible to give up cash like that, look at this thread for Gosh sakes. Now she’s decided the horse isn’t worth it and she’s trying to figure out how to get the cash back. What a mess.[/QUOTE]
Do you know how many states are under quarantine for vesicular stomatitis? The seller also didn’t state in “contract” he was getting a health certificate which I verbally said I wanted, to get that guess what you need a vet. (shocker I know) Also, when purchasing a higher dollar horse I want them insured the moment they are paid for and step foot on the trailer, especially when traveling a long distance. Although I said before, it seems to keep getting missed, you need vet records for that too.
Sorry for sounding snarky, but its getting old that a few posters are trying to make me into something I’m not. You can wonder all day long if there is more to the story, but there isn’t and it is irrelevant to keep posting it.
So you folks think she should just haul the horse illegally with no coggins or HC.
I don’t understand the idea that she shouldn’t be entitled to vet records if she is buying the horse. Most states require a negative Coggins for a sale anyway. Why is this a deal breaker for some of you? It may be required by law to be provided by the seller.
Did you get a copy of the new sale ad that was posted after you out the deposit down?
OP, you sound like somebody that knew better and got ripped off anyway.
Glad you contacted an attorney. Many times, just getting a demand letter is enough to move the process along. I hope it works for you.
[QUOTE=roseymare;8172561]
So you folks think she should just haul the horse illegally with no coggins or HC.
I don’t understand the idea that she shouldn’t be entitled to vet records if she is buying the horse. Most states require a negative Coggins for a sale anyway. Why is this a deal breaker for some of you? It may be required by law to be provided by the seller.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you by and large. Though I not sure saying,
" Most states require a negative Coggins for a sale anyway" is entirely correct with private transactions.
I and others seemed to have misread the OP’s opening comments in regards to requesting a “vet report” after “signing” and paying a deposit. The OP later clarified that she was requesting the horse’s vaccination records so as to be able to get a shipping health cert. At least that’s the way the OP’s later comments read to me.
IMO and experience this should have been asked and clarified before “signing papers” and making the deposit. Which I covered in what should be included in a Pre-purchase Contract or a Sale and Purchase Contract. For two reasons, if the horse’s vacs were not up to date the OP would not be able to ship the horses “legally” across state lines in most states. So it would be a “negotiating point”. Who pays for the vacs and coggins and health-cert? Second, if after the horse is checked by a vet for a health-cert, shipping papers and found to have “health issues” requiring the horse not to be moved until cleared up. The OP would be on the hook for board and health care.
But in fairness to the OP most of us would assume that a horse being offered for sale is “currant” and in good health. But nothing should be assumed in any business transaction. Especially when it comes to horses.
Just because the OP asked for health records after the fact is no reason for the seller/seller’s agent not to respond in a timely fashion. This is a very legitimate question, a necessary question that HAS to be answered.
If there is a problem with the horse’s health, that opens up an entirely different can of worms. Because of the lack of “paper work” done before signing and the exchanging of money. But every state can be a little bit different in what needs to be disclosed by the seller when it comes to sale of livestock.
If the OP had answered my question in post #132 I could have saved her the cost of paying an attorney to write a “letter of demand”. I would have written it out to copy and paste and explained how to go about “delivery”. The timing of things and how to proceed if or if not answered.
Getting an attorney involved can get quite expensive. It sound like we are talking about an inexpensive horse. Pretty easy to “cut off one’s nose to spite their face”. Going to court on principle can get very expensive. Most times is it just better financially to move on and “call it” lessons learned. I have over considerably more money. It sucks but it is what it is.
You might be very surprised that most of the horses I looked at were not currebt on vaccines, coggins, or even farrier care. Some sellers would not think of spending money on a horse they were going to sell, or might request a higher price to include those extras.
Private sales are not typically exempt from requiring Coggins in states that require them for sales.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8173206]
I agree with you by and large. Though I not sure saying,
" Most states require a negative Coggins for a sale anyway" is entirely correct with private transactions.
I and others seemed to have misread the OP’s opening comments in regards to requesting a “vet report” after “signing” and paying a deposit. The OP later clarified that she was requesting the horse’s vaccination records so as to be able to get a shipping health cert. At least that’s the way the OP’s later comments read to me.
IMO and experience this should have been asked and clarified before “signing papers” and making the deposit. .[/QUOTE]
Speaking of assumptions, You’re assuming it wasn’t discussed in person, pre-deposit.
