Paid deposit now seller is ignoring?

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=judybigredpony;8153745]
You are SO correct Gumtreen…which is why I have a Buyers Agreement of Sale like a Real-estate form…it covers both parties…spells out who is responsible,for,what and when …with a NON Refundable deposit pending completion of sale…and or a small NON Refundable Fee,that gives Buyer 72 hours to in essence Freeze horse off market while they still shop…but releases horse if they decide not to pursue…OP you were screwed royally…no other nice way …[/QUOTE]

When a Seller is granting the Buyer a certain time period to decide if they want the horse or not. The contract should be called an Option to Purchase Contract. The buyers pay a nonrefundable fee for the “Option”. The same as in the Options stock market.
I will only offer this if the buyer has completed a PPE and any other requirements of purchase if any. They either buy the horse or loose the “Option fee”. I won’t make the fee a “token amount”.

My Bill of Sale also states all liability, risk of loss and or injury passes to the buyer upon signing. The bill of sale must be signed as soon as the horse passes conditions of purchase. That same day. Even if the horse is being picked up the next day. This can be done by fax and or email as long as the bill of sale has language stating this.

[jennycash]

Well finally got in touch with agent. “Call it a lesson learned. If you can’t afford the horse don’t put a deposit down.” All this because I asked for vet records for shots, teeth, ect.

Police said it was civil matter so I have to go to Small Claims Court and deal with it there.

Because the “contract” that was written does not state it was refundable or non-refundable do I have an legal standing?

[anon38350891]

Heinous! From your original post, it seems there’s enough in the contract to ground a civil suit, but I’m no lawyer. It was described as a deposit, no date was given for final sale, and no restriction was mentioned on yielding up records.

The only positive thing is that it seems increasingly likely this horse might have some ‘secrets’ of health or soundness. So you might be well off without the sale. Still, I fervently hope you get your deposit back and can figure out a way to out this shyster agent.

[danceronice]

Does the contract just say you are putting X amount down and will pay the balance when (not if) you pick the horse up? If so, then yes, you do. You showed intent to buy, the request for vet work doesn’t mean you weren’t going to buy. (I asked my father, the one with the law degree. Assuming nothing in what you both signed says the sale was pending on the vet and you did NOT say you would back out if you didn’t get the vet records, you intended to buy, they signed a contract, they backed out. At least in our state you’ve got a reasonable chance of getting your money back.)

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=jennycash;8155138]
Well finally got in touch with agent. “Call it a lesson learned. If you can’t afford the horse don’t put a deposit down.” All this because I asked for vet records for shots, teeth, ect.

Police said it was civil matter so I have to go to Small Claims Court and deal with it there.

Because the “contract” that was written does not state it was refundable or non-refundable do I have an legal standing?[/QUOTE]

Was the “agent” working for you or for the seller? In other words did you call/ask the agent to find you a horse? If so the agent was working for you. If the agent called you about the horse, well, this can be a bit of a “grey” area. A lot of so called “agents” just work the “street”. They “hear” of horses for sale either directly from the seller or another agent. That agent may or may not be the “authorized” agent for the seller. This should be clarified when someone calls offering a horse. This is a big difference between an “agent” and a “broker”.

An agent for either party has a fiduciary obligation to “work” for and in the best interest of one party or the other. They cannot legally work for both without full disclosure and to keep things legal and to protect themselves a “dual agency” disclosure form should be written and signed off on by both the seller and the buyer. Commissions being paid, how much and by whom needs to be stated. It is perfectly legal to receive a commission from both sides as long as it is disclosed and accepted.

Brokers basically work for their own interest.

An agent is supposed to not only be well versed in the buying and or selling of horses but also to the legal paper work needed to protect their client. They should know how to draw up any and all contracts needed to protect their client. But they should also advise the client to have the contracts reviewed by their attorney. This is not always necessary but the agent should advise and it is up to the client to have it done or not.

The contracts I use were written by my “horse” attorney years ago. I just “tweak” them to fit the deal. But I have lots of different ones to work from. I would never use a “non horse” attorney. They don’t have a clue about all of the “nuances”. And you will pay for their education while they do the “research”.

If you want to post the exact wording of the “contract”, you can leave out names addresses, I will be happy to comment on what I think your options are. And how to go about things before going to small claims court. Keep in mind getting a judgement does not get you a check. The court will just “direct” payment not force payment and or collections. But the person will have a judgement noted on their credit report and public records. You may be in a position to sue both the seller and the agent.

Doesn’t sound like we are talking a lot of money here. I would be very surprised that either would want to go to court over this and take a chance of having a judgement levied against them. The wording of the contract will reveal a lot.

All it may take is a properly worded “letter of demand” written and properly executed to get them to come to their senses and send you a check.

[WendellsGirl]

I’m cursin’ mad for you. What a crock. I hope you prevail in the long run, whether it be collecting your money or collecting your new horse.

[judybigredpony]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8154557]
When a Seller is granting the Buyer a certain time period to decide if they want the horse or not. The contract should be called an Option to Purchase Contract. The buyers pay a nonrefundable fee for the “Option”. The same as in the Options stock market.
I will only offer this if the buyer has completed a PPE and any other requirements of purchase if any. They either buy the horse or loose the “Option fee”. I won’t make the fee a “token amount”.

My Bill of Sale also states all liability, risk of loss and or injury passes to the buyer upon signing. The bill of sale must be signed as soon as the horse passes conditions of purchase. That same day. Even if the horse is being picked up the next day. This can be done by fax and or email as long as the bill of sale has language stating this.[/QUOTE]

Got it all covered with a Lawyer drawn up BOS and it very clearly,states all above and a few other items! Nothing is token when it comes to $$$$

[CHT]

I would think that the definition of “deposit” would mean it was refundable if the seller didn’t let you complete the transaction. It’s not like you dragged your feet.

And I agree: they likely didn’t want to have to deal with someone who was going to be looking too hard at the horse before paying…likely something wrong with it.

[Kwill]

Wow, that is really shocking. Sounds like they planned to take your money and never give you the horse, from the get-go.

Scummy.

[gottagrey]

[QUOTE=jennycash;8155138]
Well finally got in touch with agent. “Call it a lesson learned. If you can’t afford the horse don’t put a deposit down.” All this because I asked for vet records for shots, teeth, ect.

Police said it was civil matter so I have to go to Small Claims Court and deal with it there.

Because the “contract” that was written does not state it was refundable or non-refundable do I have an legal standing?[/QUOTE]

Didn’t your “contract” basically state it was more like a down payment than a deposit? Additionally you put down a good faith deposit/down payment on the horse and the Agent negated/breached that contract by taking your money and re-advertising the horse. I’m no lawyer but a lawyer friend of mine had looked a horse, set up a vet appointment… called the vet to see if horse pass, vet said seller cancelled it. The next thing I knew she ended up w/ 2 horses (one a companion) a truck and a trailer (old) as part of her “settlement” from the seller to make things right since he broke the contract with her. Just sayin - you might be entitled to more than just your deposit back. I hope you got a copy of the ad after you put down the deposit/payment!

[Gestalt]

Double scummy, out them!

[Kwill]

At least call the owner and leave a message stating that you find their business practices very unethical and you will be pursing this legally.

State it was not a deposit, as gottagrey says, it was a downpayment and you fully expected to buy the horse, and they broke the contract.

They may argue they think you had no intention of paying for the horse because they believed you couldn’t afford it (as per their message). It’s ridiculous but that appears to be their angle on this when they have to defend themselves.

[dacasodivine]

Don’t think so!!! They don’t get to call the sale off and keep the deposit! Get yourself to small claims. Unless I am mistaken, you will have to do it in their city/county.

[Kwill]

12 hours away … that may have figured you wouldn’t go after them because filing a small claims suit will take some time and effort on your part, as it is correct you have to do it in the county it occurred in.

[airhorse]

As someone posted earlier, if across state lines might be a federal issue.

[jennycash]

Here is the exact contract (without names/numbers) for those who have asked.

“I _____ sell one 5 year old gelding for the some of $____
$_____ Cash paid up on 5-13-15 for a bal due of $_____ at time of pick up.
I will supply brand inspection at pick up and papers will be sent after payment in full.”

*His signature
Agent

Also I wanted to ad, I never signed anything. Only he did.

[jennycash]

Not until today did I ever tell them I didn’t want the horse (not that I could have since they don’t answer). They stated I breeched contract because of my apparent money issues and not buying him. Yet he was for sale again on Saturday?

[CHT]

So you bought the horse from an agent, but the agent is the one who signed that you paid? That is very confusing to me. Unless it is more or less a receipt of money received?

At what point did you say you don’t want the horse? Is the horse sold to someone else? If he is still available, and YOU backed out of the sale, then it may be a grey area as to if you are due a refund.

But yes, sounds scammy/scummy.

[m_m1]

Not judging - promise! - just asking - why don’t you want the horse? General distrust of the people involved?

[DJohn]

Who would want the horse after that runaround?

I hope that after you go to court, you will out these losers and let everyone know exactly WHO they need to avoid.
Money is money, and he stole yours.